How honest should you be?

[aels]

So I was reading another article* and it led me to this one: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a2 ... nesty0707/

What do we all think about this, then? I consider the kind of 'radical honesty' on display here to be borderline sociopathic in its lack of understanding and empathy for why we tell lies. I don't know, it just seems kind of... immature (?) to say 'I don't see why we can't just say what we think all the time and actually it's doing other people a favour' because I think one of the first social skills you learn as a child is that not everybody needs to hear everything you are thinking at any given time because some of the things you are thinking are unkind or unhelpful or will make someone punch you. I have serious communication issues and I've been trying really hard to be more honest with people about my feelings because bottling things up was hurting me really badly. But I still think that there's a difference, and an important one between being open and being radically honest. I think the vast majority of lies we tell are 'social' lies, either to try not to hurt someone else's feelings ('No, you don't look frumpy in that dress') or to present ourselves a little better ('I've been pretty busy today' rather than 'Sat around in my pants watching Jeremy Kyle').

I try to be very honest in my relationship, even when it's painful to me (and I do find being incredibly open about my feelings to be painful because holy vulnerability, Batman) but at the same time, I'd never dream of saying literally everything I was thinking at all times. And that's my most honest relationship. I lie to my dad quote a lot ('No, tell me more about your football team, I am listening' / 'Yeah, I definitely eat vegetables sometimes'), to my boss ('Yes, your new boyfriend sounds nice'), to my friends ('I can't come out, I have a... thing'), I lie about my mental health all the time because otherwise people worry or because I want to be left alone, I lie about whether I got dressed today (I TOTALLY GOT DRESSED TODAY) but I don't think I ever lie to anyone about anything really important. So is there anything wrong with how much I lie? Is it okay to lie as long as you don't lie about big things (cheating, murder, whatever)? Should we be more honest? Is lying to protect other people's feelings doing them a kindness or being patronising? Is radical honesty like regular honesty but on a skateboard? So many questions.


*This one:http://jezebel.com/your-relationship-is ... 1684777555

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

There's a big difference between "being honest about everything" and "being honest about everything and voicing those honest opinions even when there's no particular reason to". You can adopt a philosophy of being honest without going out of your way to be a be a complete douchebag by telling people they're fat/ugly/stupid/whatever for no readily apparent reason other than you think it's true - just keep it to yourself.

Furthermore, whilst I do generally agree that honesty is best, there are times when a bit of common sense has to come into play. Use your emotional intelligence and tell white lies to protect vulnerable people (or people who are just having a vulnerable moment) if possible. For example - telling the truth to a grieving widow about her husband's extramarital affairs is just being a bastard (unless she really wanted to know about them and you're sure she can handle the truth).

That's my two cents anyway.

[Dr_Liszt]

What Opiate said. I think I'm very honest myself mostly because I don't have a filter. But even when I don't have a filter I still manage to not be an asshole to people. It's called diplomacy. People should learn that.

[BruceSmith78]

You should watch Liar Liar, starring everyone's favorite actor, and I think you'll find he'll answer all of these questions for you.

I try my best not to lie, but I also try my best to avoid social interaction of any kind, which makes it easier to avoid lying. I didn't read either article, because I'm lazy and because I don't care whether some internet blogger thinks I should lie or not (honesty), but I'm of the opinion that saying hurtful things is typically not helpful and not doing anyone a favor, even if you believe those hurtful things to be true facts.

[aels]

Reported for pro-Carrey speech.

[thesalmonofdoubt]

I don't know if there is a straight forward answer to the whole "When to be brutally honest vs when to tell a lie for the sake of someone's feelings" thing. Along the lines of what Opiate said, I do think there is an enormous difference in being honest as a rule and saying everything thing that crosses your mind with no regard towards the audiences reaction to the same. It's all part of the social contract that you decide how what level of "how vocal I should be with my opinions and damn the consequences.

I guess it depends on what your intentions are and how warranted it is given the context of the situation it is for you to be honest. You don't just tell a fat person they are fat because, honesty. What purpose would it serve and what would be the effect both to your reputation/likeability and their feelings? Seems the only end result of this sort of honestly would be for you to paint yourself as an offensive dick and make a point of making someone feel bad about something they already are conscious of.

But - there are plenty of other situations where not being honest ultimately works against everyone even if being honest is bound to hurt feelings. If you're in a relationship and one of you is being irresponsible with money to the detriment of long term goals - then it may hurt their feelings or cause conflict to bring this up but - there is a purpose and that purpose is well intentioned..so, I'd rather do that than hold my tongue.

I guess you also need to balance out a desire to not hurt peoples feelings against your own credibility. By way of a lame arse example, Ann was having a facebook conversation with her niece in the states. The niece is a big girl - not enormous but hefty and somehow the conversation addressed this - I can't remember the context but it was something like "now, I know I'm pretty fat but .. **something something** Ann responded with a "Oh honey, you're not fat **something something** and, to me it threw up a whole slew of issues. For a start, the niece wasn't lamenting that she was heavy, she was simply commenting on this as a neutral fact that describes her. Secondly, she knows her shape and saying to someone you're not fat when they just said they are fat seems to imply that being fat is such a bad thing that we're all just gonna lie rather than address it at all even when the person who is fat is completely aware/comfortable with that. So, by lying your actually kinda confirming that you think being fat is a bad thing and, more than that, it kinda takes the credibility out of any actual compliments that you do give given you kinda establish yourself as a person who gives compliments that aren't even true.

I personally am not the sort of person who wants people to lie to me to make me feel better and I don't get offended all that easily if I agree that something negative/ostensibly negative about me is addressed with me especially when the intention on the part of the speaker is not to cause offense. But, I can be kinda socially autistic like that.

I guess my rule is - if someone offers an opinion that is wrong minded and they might feel offended by hearing a counter opinion, I'll go right ahead and give the counter opinion if I feel it is more correct given offering an opinion is the liberty that they exercised and I have a right to exercise my right to offer my opinion.. There's no cause to be a dick about it but theres also not cause to not address someone who I believe to be incorrect.

[Gypsy-Vanner]

I'm completely honest with my best friend, like in everything. If she asks me if her butt looks big I'll tell her if I think it does. Otherwise I lie all the time with same things as Aels said. There's nothing wrong with white lying as long as it isn't harmful to anyone.

[phe_de]

There's a big difference between "being honest about everything" and "being honest about everything and voicing those honest opinions even when there's no particular reason to". You can adopt a philosophy of being honest without going out of your way to be a be a complete douchebag by telling people they're fat/ugly/stupid/whatever for no readily apparent reason other than you think it's true - just keep it to yourself.

Correct.
However, what to do when people ask you something, and you think they might not like the truth?
In that case, I usually give a wishy-washy answer, or don't answer at all, or change the subject. But I do my best not to lie.
And only if they insist, I tell the truth. No lies. And if they act offended, I say: "Well, you wanted to know..."

The problem with lies is that you usually have to create follow-up lies in order to uphold them. And then follow-up lies to the follow-up lies. And eventually, you get entangled in a web of lies.

[Ptolemy_Banana]

I'm completely honest with my best friend, like in everything. If she asks me if her butt looks big I'll tell her if I think it does.

Come on, it's 2015, the "does my butt look big in this" scenario has been corrected and reversed.

[Ptolemy_Banana]

What do we all think about this, then? I consider the kind of 'radical honesty' on display here to be borderline sociopathic in its lack of understanding and empathy for why we tell lies. I don't know, it just seems kind of... immature (?) to say 'I don't see why we can't just say what we think all the time and actually it's doing other people a favour' because I think one of the first social skills you learn as a child is that not everybody needs to hear everything you are thinking at any given time because some of the things you are thinking are unkind or unhelpful or will make someone punch you.

Lies are the glue which hold society together. People who are deliberately painfully honest are either selfish or have some kind of condition where they don't understand these social skills, but that's pretty much the opposite of sociopathic, other than in the Gatiss/Moffat sense of the word which is completely wrong. Sociopaths are skilled at being dishonest. The only time they would be brutally honest is they were trying to hurt someone.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

There's a big difference between "being honest about everything" and "being honest about everything and voicing those honest opinions even when there's no particular reason to". You can adopt a philosophy of being honest without going out of your way to be a be a complete douchebag by telling people they're fat/ugly/stupid/whatever for no readily apparent reason other than you think it's true - just keep it to yourself.

Correct.
However, what to do when people ask you something, and you think they might not like the truth?
In that case, I usually give a wishy-washy answer, or don't answer at all, or change the subject. But I do my best not to lie.
And only if they insist, I tell the truth. No lies. And if they act offended, I say: "Well, you wanted to know..."

The problem with lies is that you usually have to create follow-up lies in order to uphold them. And then follow-up lies to the follow-up lies. And eventually, you get entangled in a web of lies.

Oh I quite agree with you.

About the only time I out and out lie is to the wife when I'm keen to avoid a massive argument/want her to agree to some "special activities". But otherwise it's just not worth the aggravation to lie when people ask for the truth most times - either don't answer or give them the truth.

[Dr_Liszt]

There are SOOOOOOO many ways you can tell a person they look fucktard horrible in an outfit without being an horrible human being and without telling them they look fucktard horrible. What happened to the... "I think this style will suit you beter?" "Maybe try something else?" "I like this other thing better because your XX body part is enhanced." That's if I don't know the person, if I have a level of trust I say "I don't like it! Maybe try something else." The same can be said about different situations "It's a little bit disconsiderate to do this." etc, etc.

But people advocate with the whole "EWWW!! YOU LOOK SO UGLY I WANT TO VOMIT!" as honesty, and it's not. That's being a jerk.

I even lectured a mom about how to raise her daughter without telling her "you are a horrible mother!" I told her "I need your help to make your daughter understand this... for that I need you to tell her this..." We have language. We can be honest without being douchebags.

[Gypsy-Vanner]

What Taboo said...the 2nd one that is.

[phe_de]

But otherwise it's just not worth the aggravation to lie when people ask for the truth most times - either don't answer or give them the truth.

Tonight when I came home, there was a message from my mother, about a computer problem.
When I called her back, the first question she asked was "Am I bothering you?"
Truth is, I hadn't eaten dinner yet, so "yes" would have been a honest, but rude answer. "No" would have been a lie.

So after a short moment of hesitation I said: "Just get to the point", with a hopefully not threatening voice tone. She chuckled, and then got to the point.
The chat afterwards was pleasant. The computer problem was fixed, and we also did a little small talk about a smartphone game we both play.

No lies, no bad blood. That's how it should be.

[Gendo]

I'm sure this is just one of those things where tone is everything and you can't read tone in a written form... but "just get to the point" sounds way ruder than "yes, I'm busy at the moment."

[Islandmur]

Being honest doesn't mean saying everything that's on your mind, it means answering or replying honestly.

That being said, lying is all about context. The "why" of your lie is more important then the lie. Are you lying to get out of something? or Just to avoid hurting someone?

Personally I think most people that asks questions like "does this look good on me / make me look fat" already know the answer, I usually say something along the likes of it's a nice dress but it doesn't suit you.

I will not tell someone something looks good on them if it doesn't because I think that's hurting, letting them go out with something that's not good on them. As a friend it's my job not to let you go out looking bad/ridiculous even at times.

[phe_de]

I'm sure this is just one of those things where tone is everything and you can't read tone in a written form... but "just get to the point" sounds way ruder than "yes, I'm busy at the moment."

In writing it does.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

I'm sure this is just one of those things where tone is everything and you can't read tone in a written form... but "just get to the point" sounds way ruder than "yes, I'm busy at the moment."

In writing it does.

Hey - if you were saying it in German, it'll sound aggressive anyway. Everything sounds like a declaration of war in German.