Privilege

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

Came across this:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/how-pr ... xjvznMoGOV

It helps you figure out how privileged you are. It's a bit America-focused so those of not from America will have to use our imagination interpreting a couple of the questions, but I thought as we keep coming round to this topic quite often it was worth posting it.

I got 65 out of 100 which is "Fairly Privileged" apparently.

[Derived Absurdity]

Awww, I was looking forward to reading your explanation of how privilege doesn't exist once you control for the necessary variables.

Edit: 57 is apparently "quite privileged", which I would think is more than "fairly privileged", but Buzzfeed knows all, so I guess not.


(also it should really go without saying that this test is really fucking stupid)

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

Sorry to disappoint.

I did come across something else (which has a little more science behind it too) which is quite interesting:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

Click through to Race IAT (I can't link straight to it unfortunately). It takes a few minutes to do, but it turns out I have a slight subconscious bias towards white people. I'm not entirely surprised by that - I've never lived in the most racially mixed places - so if that's hanging around in my subconscious that'd be why. Could be worse - at least it's not a moderate or extreme bias.

[Derived Absurdity]

IATs are worthless. They're a bit more scientific than Buzzfeed polls, but not much. I think we may have discussed them here before, but I don't remember. Anyway, here's some stuff:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 8/abstract" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/faculty ... theiat.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... on_Studies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[aels]

IATs are worthless. They're a bit more scientific than Buzzfeed polls, but not much. I think we may have discussed them here before, but I don't remember.

Go on? I've seen criticisms of the validity of IATs but nothing quite so definitive.

[Derived Absurdity]

Here are some journal articles I remember reading on IATs:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/ps ... e-job.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (very long and kind of bad)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/be ... -prejudice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/th ... t-too.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Boomer]

I got a 71 which was "quite privileged".

I'm in the lead!

[aels]

Here are some journal articles I remember reading on IATs:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/ps ... e-job.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (very long and kind of bad)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/be ... -prejudice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/th ... t-too.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fanks, my guy, will read when I've woken up a bit more.

[aels]

I got 55 and cannot believe that having both my parents alive counts as a privilege. Buzzfeed, have you met my mother tho.

[Anakin McFly]

46. "You're not privileged".

I'd disagree with their elaboration "You're not privileged at all", because while I'm all the minorities (I've been called both a fag and a dyke, lol), I'm also well educated and from a lower-upper-class family and that makes up for a lot of things. But if I had no money I'd be thoroughly screwed.

Re: the IAT criticism - I agree that it often says more about in-group/out-group membership than prejudice per se, but how that often expresses is in racist ways; so while the underlying mechanism may not be racism, the consequences are. It also doesn't explain, say, non-white people with strong preferences for white people, which happens more often than the inverse.

The PsychologyToday article writes:

To me, the most interesting question is why some people with a strong IAT-effect show overt racism while others with a strong IAT-effect do not.

That's because it measures implicit bias, not overt. People can choose not to act out their prejudices and try to counter them instead. My IAT test showed I have a strong preference for straight people over gay people, and that seems accurate, but I also do what I can to work for gay rights, partly because I know from first-hand experience how insidious and pervasive homophobia can be. I likewise have a mild preference for Asian over white (explainable by in-group theory), but a moderate preference for white over black (explainable by racism and lack of exposure), while being intellectually committed to countering racism.

Regarding the article on sexism IATs, I think that sexual orientation might also be at play - for straight male subjects, their attraction to women might be nullifying the sexism factor and causing them to see women positively.

Even weirder, when you switch to IATs geared at evaluating not whether the test-taker implicitly favors men over women (or vice versa), but whether they are quicker to associate men versus women more with career, family, and similarly gendered concepts, the IAT somewhat reliably evaluates women as having higher rates of implicit bias against women than men do.

I don't see why this is weird. It falls in line with other studies showing that women tend to discriminate against other women (in hiring, etc) more strongly than men do. Internalised misogyny is a thing, and internalised isms are often stronger than externalised ones because there's much more emotional investment there - if you're being treated unjustly, a common coping method is to justify that injustice. Sometimes they come to realise this and wish to fight against it, and that's how you end up with liberals having more implicit prejudice than conservatives.

This may also shed light on how many men don't think they're sexist - perhaps it's because they personally aren't, and may truly believe the genders are equal, but are raised in a culture that privileges men at the expense of women and thus end up acting in misogynist ways by default - the misogyny thus stems from ignorance and conformity, not bias.

[Blade Azaezel]

76. Boom! Peasants.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

IATs are worthless. They're a bit more scientific than Buzzfeed polls, but not much. I think we may have discussed them here before, but I don't remember.

Go on? I've seen criticisms of the validity of IATs but nothing quite so definitive.

Since DA provided the scientific source, I'll provide an anecdote of my experience:

Just going through the race one myself just now, I was pretty aware of what they were trying to do. Not to mention they prime you to associate one key with good and another key with bad before trying to change things up. So my result may have been more out of a habit that was formed through the very first portion of clicking

And I again knew what they were trying to do, that calls into question the validity of my results. Not to mention I've known for quite awhile that I've had a bias towards white people (hey, just because my results were accurate doesn't discount the issues I'm raising about the IAT )

[CashRules]

You live with 46 out of 100 points of privilege.
You're not privileged at all. You grew up with an intersectional, complicated identity, and life never let you forget it. You've had your fair share of struggles, and you've worked hard to overcome them. We do not live in an ideal world and you had to learn that the hard way. It is not your responsibility to educate those with more advantages than you, but if you decide you want to, go ahead and send them this quiz. Hopefully it will help.

[Gendo]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

[Derived Absurdity]

Oh, so eleven points is the difference between "Quite Privileged" and "not privileged at all"? Bitch, please.

[Blade Azaezel]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

Not sure why it thinks that having parents pay your bills is a privilege. I can see where they're coming from, but my unemployed, single, forever jobless friend has his bills paid for by his parents and it's not like they're rich. He's just a bum.

It also doesn't seem to mention anything about owning property. Surely, in this day and age, owning your own house is a privilege that many just can't afford.

Also, the whole Christian thing is very specifically American. Being a godless heathen in the UK has never once resulted in me being discriminated against in any way, shape or form that I'm aware of.

[Derived Absurdity]

And even here being a godless heathen is only a problem in certain areas.

[BruceSmith78]

Like Texas.

But you can easily do what I do, and just pretend to be Christian, or just be silent, to avoid unwanted exclusion or unpleasant conversations. It's certainly easier than pretending to have a different sexual orientation or to be a different gender.

[Islandmur]

You live with 33 out of 100 points of privilege.

Yeah well hmmm ok

[aels]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

you forgot disability, you ableist FUCK

[aels]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

Not sure why it thinks that having parents pay your bills is a privilege. I can see where they're coming from, but my unemployed, single, forever jobless friend has his bills paid for by his parents and it's not like they're rich. He's just a bum.

It also doesn't seem to mention anything about owning property. Surely, in this day and age, owning your own house is a privilege that many just can't afford.

Also, the whole Christian thing is very specifically American. Being a godless heathen in the UK has never once resulted in me being discriminated against in any way, shape or form that I'm aware of.

Yep, my dad (who is not rich) pays for most of my bills because I am a cripple who doesn't earn enough to pay for myself. If I could work full-time, I'd be paying my own way.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

Not sure why it thinks that having parents pay your bills is a privilege. I can see where they're coming from, but my unemployed, single, forever jobless friend has his bills paid for by his parents and it's not like they're rich. He's just a bum.

It also doesn't seem to mention anything about owning property. Surely, in this day and age, owning your own house is a privilege that many just can't afford.

Also, the whole Christian thing is very specifically American. Being a godless heathen in the UK has never once resulted in me being discriminated against in any way, shape or form that I'm aware of.

Yep, my dad (who is not rich) pays for most of my bills because I am a cripple who doesn't earn enough to pay for myself. If I could work full-time, I'd be paying my own way.

Insert joke about you getting the best parking spots.

[aels]

I don't even have a blue badge! I am terrible at being a leech on society!

[phe_de]

I got 57 on the Buzzfeed poll. I forgot what it means.
But I don't believe that anything on Buzzfeed should be taken seriously.

[vnufeld]

I got a 46 which was a little surprising to me as a white, cisgendered male.

[Gendo]

Can someone explain what the unpaid internship has to do with anything? I actually have no idea if it's saying that not having an unpaid internship is privilege because you actually get paid for the work you do instead, or if it's saying that having an unpaid internship is privilege because those types of things are associated with higher education and higher paying jobs down the road.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

Can someone explain what the unpaid internship has to do with anything? I actually have no idea if it's saying that not having an unpaid internship is privilege because you actually get paid for the work you do instead, or if it's saying that having an unpaid internship is privilege because those types of things are associated with higher education and higher paying jobs down the road.

I think it's a combination of higher education and the fact that if you don't get an unpaid internship during your stint with higher education, you're practically up shit creek when it comes to finding a job related to your degree.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

Can someone explain what the unpaid internship has to do with anything? I actually have no idea if it's saying that not having an unpaid internship is privilege because you actually get paid for the work you do instead, or if it's saying that having an unpaid internship is privilege because those types of things are associated with higher education and higher paying jobs down the road.

I think it's probably a combination of two things.

To do a full time job for free it means that someone else has to be supporting you. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be in the position that they can afford to work a full time job for free.

And some internships are about "knowing the right people" to get them.

But mainly the first one.

[thesalmonofdoubt]

You live with 74 out of 100 points of privilege.
You're quite privileged. You've had a few struggles, but overall your life has been far easier than most. This is not a bad thing, nor is it something to be ashamed of. But you should be aware of your advantages and work to help others who don't have them. Thank you for checking your privilege.


There were a few questions there that just don't work for my circumstance

For example - "have I ever been mocked because of my accent" .. yes .. 100,000 times but never in such a way as It impacted me in anyway shape or form .. being mocked for having an Australian accent hardly qualifies as something that impacts on my life at all.

Same goes for Catcalling - I've been cat called a whole bunch of times but normally from Gay men and I think its a pretty different dynamic to what happens with women.

Ive also been called a fag - but like Gendo said - everyone at some point has been called a fag -

To the "I've never been called a racial slur" .. I'm a white wog, so people who know me have called me a wog but its hardly something someone who didn't know me would be able to determine from looking at me

So I answered inline with what I think was the spirit of the question rather than an actual True or false binary

[Islandmur]

Can someone explain what the unpaid internship has to do with anything? I actually have no idea if it's saying that not having an unpaid internship is privilege because you actually get paid for the work you do instead, or if it's saying that having an unpaid internship is privilege because those types of things are associated with higher education and higher paying jobs down the road.

it is because offered or not those without privilege would not be able to accept an unpaid internship because they have to make money.

[Monk]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

Not sure why it thinks that having parents pay your bills is a privilege. I can see where they're coming from, but my unemployed, single, forever jobless friend has his bills paid for by his parents and it's not like they're rich. He's just a bum.

It also doesn't seem to mention anything about owning property. Surely, in this day and age, owning your own house is a privilege that many just can't afford.

Also, the whole Christian thing is very specifically American. Being a godless heathen in the UK has never once resulted in me being discriminated against in any way, shape or form that I'm aware of.

Gotta disagree with you here. If you have someone who pays your bills for you, allowing you to be a "bum," then you are definitely privileged.

Overall, I don't think it's a very good test. Has some random ass questions. Like when I spiked my hair as a teenager, people asked to touch it not all that infrequently. I don't think that's a sign of not being privileged, in my case.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

79. Bow to your social better, Azaezel.

Some of those questions are silly anyway.... to I buy new clothes at least once a month? Um, no. I could certainly afford to if I really wanted, but why would I waste my money like that? That's got nothing to do with privilege. Why didn't it say "could you afford to buy new clothes at least once a month"? Same with the cable question. I don't have cable, but it has nothing to do with what I can afford or where I live.

And then the questions about being called "fag" or other homosexual slurs. Um, pretty sure are male and you grew up in the 80s, then you've been called those names. It just seems like the entire quiz should have been 6 questions instead...

1. Are you male?
2. Are you white?
3. Are you rich?
4. Are you heterosexual?
5. Are you cisgender?
6. Are you Christian?

BOOM, 6 out of 6, done.

Not sure why it thinks that having parents pay your bills is a privilege. I can see where they're coming from, but my unemployed, single, forever jobless friend has his bills paid for by his parents and it's not like they're rich. He's just a bum.

It also doesn't seem to mention anything about owning property. Surely, in this day and age, owning your own house is a privilege that many just can't afford.

Also, the whole Christian thing is very specifically American. Being a godless heathen in the UK has never once resulted in me being discriminated against in any way, shape or form that I'm aware of.

Gotta disagree with you here. If you have someone who pays your bills for you, allowing you to be a "bum," then you are definitely privileged.

Overall, I don't think it's a very good test. Has some random ass questions. Like when I spiked my hair as a teenager, people asked to touch it not all that infrequently. I don't think that's a sign of not being privileged, in my case.

I agree there are big limitations with it but if you answer the questions in the spirit of what they're getting at rather than technicalities it could be worse...

[Gendo]