Kevin Spacey

[Anakin McFly]

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/30/ ... thony-rapp

this was oddly liberating to find out about, since I'd always gotten a creepy vibe from him that I couldn't explain. but I'm angry at how his timing means all the conservative Christian outlets are going to use this to further fuel their narrative of gay men as sexual predators.

(and this is a nitpick, but I hate that they keep using the term pedophilia here. pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children. A 14 year old is not prepubescent and is far more likely to be assaulted by a generic sex offender than a pedophile. Spacey primarily had relations with adults and teens, which isn't what pedophiles do.)

[Monk]

Isn't there a term for people who are attracted to adolescents? I feel like there is an I can't remember.

[CashRules]

Isn't there a term for people who are attracted to adolescents? I feel like there is an I can't remember.

Hebephilia. I personally don't have a problem with people using pedophilia in the generic sense to mean attraction to anyone below the age of consent but if the discussion requires exactness then I guess the correct word should be used.

EDIT: There's also Ephebophilia which is the attraction to older adolescents. This one is troubling because it could include people who are 17 - 19 and therefore legally adults in most jurisdictions.

[Anakin McFly]

I wouldn't consider this a hebophilia/ephebophilia issue either, because he didn't seem motivated by attraction to a particular age group. Some of the other accusers coming forth were in their 20s or 30s when they were harassed or assaulted by Spacey, so it seems to be general predatory behaviour unrelated to the victim's ages, and making this into an age issue misses the point.

[aels]

I personally don't have a problem with people using pedophilia in the generic sense to mean attraction to anyone below the age of consent

Remember pancakeeater getting really upset whenever anyone called him a paedophile because he only wanted to rape 12-14 year olds instead of pre-pubescents, so we just did it more because he was terrible? Happy days.

[Anakin McFly]

I'd be upset too because he's making paedophiles look bad. “Child rapist" in his case would be more accurate in every way.

[maz89]

And now apparently, Charlie Sheen has been accused of raping a thirteen year old on set. Revolting.

[Anakin McFly]

“Haim told me he had sex with Sheen when they filmed Lucas," Brascia told the outlet about Haim, who passed away at the age of 38 in 2010. “He told me they smoked pot and had sex. He said they had anal sex. Haim said after it happened Sheen became very cold and rejected him. When Corey wanted to fool around again, Charlie was not interested. ... According to Brascia, the Lucas costars also had sex years later.

“Haim told me he had sex with Sheen again," Brascia claimed. “He claimed he didn't like it and was finally over Sheen. He said Charlie was a loser."

http://people.com/tv/charlie-sheen-accu ... orey-haim/

I mean, if it's true (this wasn't a first-hand account) it's still terrible and falls under statutory rape, but two teenagers (one of whom is underage) agreeing to have sex and then again as adults isn't in the same realm as an adult assaulting a child.

Haim's mother meanwhile claims it was someone else who abused her son, not Sheen: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-ne ... llegations

I don't like Sheen and have no interest in defending him, and I wouldn't be surprised if other things turned up, but this is the first one that doesn't really add up, not least how the original account sounds more like a kid bragging untruthfully about having had sex, not someone confiding an assault.

[maz89]

I think it's plausible to believe that sexual abuse victims can also suffer from Stockholm's, though. I'm also troubled by Denise Richard's statement on finding "underage boy" porn on Sheen's computer.

Just to play devil's advocate, parents can often be clueless about what is going on in the lives of their children. Not saying that I'm dead certain Sheen raped the kid (and yes, manipulating a 13 year old to have sex with you is rape, especially when you're in a position to sway and control the mind of a teen who's just hit puberty. The difference between 19 and 20 feels arbitrary to me, btw... would this incident somehow become more terrible if Sheen was 20?) and I find the story of them having sex as adults kind of suspect too (feels like a concoction Haim might have sold to Brascia to project an image of being finally in 'control' with his Sheen obsession), but I wouldn't brush it all away.

[Anakin McFly]

I'm also troubled by Denise Richard's statement on finding "underage boy" porn on Sheen's computer.

Yeah, that definitely changes things.

I agree about Stockholm's and parents often being clueless about what's going on. But if it had been manipulation, it wouldn't explain becoming 'cold' after and turning down further sex, which would seem the opposite of what a predator would do when faced with a willing victim. So that part struck me as odd. If we discard the mother's response, my impression is that Haim was obsessed with Sheen, wanted sex, and Sheen agreed because he did too, when he shouldn't have taken advantage of a kid's crush.

The difference between 19 and 20 feels arbitrary to me, btw... would this incident somehow become more terrible if Sheen was 20?)

I think the terribleness of most sexual abuse stems primarily from the unequal power dynamic and lack of any consent. I definitely consider this case very different from what happened with Spacey and Rapp, which was entirely unconsensual, even though that one didn't go as far as sex. But I've known of couples of similar age where there was a very unequal power dynamic, and those with a large age gap (though legal) where they came across as equals, and I'd be more worried about the former being ripe for abuse.

This also comes off a discussion with a friend regarding how 70s/80s gay culture often had boys as young as 13 or 14 who ended up in relationships with the older men who took them under their wing to provide for and protect them after their families kicked them out. And while it still makes me very uncomfortable, I can understand how those relationships emerged from those circumstances, where those were kids who had nowhere else to go and were desperate for love and to have their sexuality affirmed in the only way they knew how. It disturbs me a lot, but it was broken people trying to comfort each other in a hostile world, and... I don't know. I'd consider it clearly wrong if it was the adult giving the teen food and shelter and manipulating them into sex in return, but if it was a devastated teenager demanding a kiss or more as proof that someone loved him, then the line gets grey.