Raxivace's 2021 Movies or: (Neo General-Chat V for Vendetta)

[Raxivace]

77. The Wayward Cloud (2005, Dir. Tsai Ming-liang)
I liked this one. Eva is a fan of this one too, and I remember he once said that this film highlights how musicals and porn films work on the same principle. What he exactly meant by that, unfortunately, I really don't know.

Now I feel bad for taking so long to get to this. :(

Anyways IIRC Jimbo's argument (Which IIRC was influenced by Linda Williams) was that both are examples of genre built around spectacle, where the rest of the film really only exists as an excuse to support the spectacle and keep it all from happening all at once. In musicals this is for singing 'n' dancing scenes (Presumably the reason you go to see a musical as opposed to regular drama or comedy), and in porn films its for explicit sex scenes and the like (Presumably the reason you're seeing a porn film instead of a regular drama or comedy). The only difference between the genres really being the specific spectacles being put on display. You can probably make similar argument about how action movies like John Wick are constructed.

[Raxivace]

Poor conservatives. Even the most high-profile and respected "conservative" Hollywood guy they can point to and claim as their own is, at best, only ambiguously conservative. It must be tiring to keep losing the culture war so hard.

Haha yeah. I do have to wonder if Eastwood would identify differently though if he was born in a different era.

[Raxivace]

Anyways this is probably a bittersweet time to announce this but I don't think I'll be regularly posting about every single movie I watch anymore. Honestly I've been mostly going on autopilot with these things since around the time the pandemic started anyways in a vain effort to keep myself from going crazy from boredom, but its hard for me to really find the same passion for film inside myself anymore. I'll still be around here and every now and then I might make an effort-post about this or that movie if I really need to get something off my chest, but I think possibility of me going back to regularly writing the kinds of things I used to do is more or less dead at this point.

[Derived Absurdity]

Sorry to hear that. I've been the same way for a while. I've stopped posting about movies because I almost never have any thoughts about a new movie I saw besides "That was fine, I guess." I'll also probably make an effort post about something occasionally if I think I have something actually interesting to say about it. Other than that, not much.

[Lord_Lyndon]

Anyways IIRC Jimbo's argument (Which IIRC was influenced by Linda Williams) was that both are examples of genre built around spectacle, where the rest of the film really only exists as an excuse to support the spectacle and keep it all from happening all at once. In musicals this is for singing 'n' dancing scenes (Presumably the reason you go to see a musical as opposed to regular drama or comedy), and in porn films its for explicit sex scenes and the like (Presumably the reason you're seeing a porn film instead of a regular drama or comedy). The only difference between the genres really being the specific spectacles being put on display.

Thanks for the clarification.

You can probably make similar argument about how action movies like John Wick are constructed.

Definitely. Most people watch action films just to enjoy some awesome action sequences.

[Lord_Lyndon]

...but its hard for me to really find the same passion for film inside myself anymore.

I hope you still enjoy watching anime, playing videogames and reading books.

[Raxivace]

...but its hard for me to really find the same passion for film inside myself anymore.

I hope you still enjoy watching anime, playing videogames and reading books.

I mean I do, and I still enjoy movies when I get around to watching them even. Its just hard to feel same drive to devour as many movies as I possibly can though when film culture seems to increasingly inspired less by the kinds of the movies I like, and more by like, the MCU, television dramas, and freakin' YouTube (Which itself could easily become eclipsed by Tiktok as a source of inspiration). It just seems like film culture is fracturing in a faster way than I anticipated, and not for the better if I'm being honest.

Part of it too is that like with what DA is saying, its hard to find much new to say anymore, especially about movies made in western narrative tradition.

[Lord_Lyndon]

Part of it too is that like with what DA is saying, its hard to find much new to say anymore, especially about movies made in western narrative tradition.

Yeah. I can certainly agree with that. Shame. I really enjoyed your posts about films. I hope you will still post about anime.

[Raxivace]

I mean I might if I still find something interesting to talk about. I'll probably end up converting this thread from a general 2021 movie thread to something for just general posting like that, when the occasion strikes me anyways.

The only real notable anime I've finished lately is Higurashi Sotsu btw, which was somehow significantly worse than Gou, and mostly because it spends 13 of its 15 episodes recapping Gou and bluntly answering mysteries that were already spelled out in Gou. Its honestly baffling its as bad as it is (I think I rated it a 3/10 on MAL compared to the generous 6 I gave Gou), but weirdly its not something that really lends itself to writing much about because of all the recapping and spelling out of things.

[Lord_Lyndon]

Rax... I just want to get back to something you mentioned earlier this year.

I didn't realize it before, but now having seen Tokyo Story I've seen the 2012 Sight & Sound Critic's Top 10. It might be kind of pointless when just next year the 2022 Top 10 is coming out, but I kind of want to talk about the whole Top 100 at some point for the 2012 list.

I checked out this list. Here it is.

Vertigo (1958)
Citizen Kane (1941)
Tokyo Story (1953)
The Rules of the Game (1939)
Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (1927)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
The Searchers (1956)
Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
8½ (1963)
Battleship Potemkin (1925)
L'Atalante (1934)
Breathless (1960)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
Late Spring (1949)
Au Hasard Balthazar (1966)
Seven Samurai (1954)
Persona (1966)
Mirror (1975)
Singin' in the Rain (1952)
L'Avventura (1960)
Le Mépris (1963)
The Godfather (1972)
Ordet (1955)
In the Mood for Love (2000)
Rashomon (1950)
Andrei Rublev (1966)
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Stalker (1979)
Shoah (1985)
The Godfather Part II (1974)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Bicycle Thieves (1948)
The General (1926)
Metropolis (1927)
Psycho (1960)
Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (1975)
Sátántangó (1994)
The 400 Blows (1959)
La Dolce Vita (1960)
Journey to Italy (1954)
Pather Panchali (1955)
Some Like It Hot (1959)
Gertrud (1964)
Pierrot le Fou (1965)
Playtime (1967)
Close-Up (1990)
The Battle of Algiers (1966)
Histoire(s) du cinéma (1988-1998)
City Lights (1931)
Ugetsu Monogatari (1953)
La Jetée (1962)
North by Northwest (1959)
Rear Window (1954)
Raging Bull (1980)
M (1931)
The Leopard (1963)
Touch of Evil (1958)
Sherlock Jr. (1924)
Barry Lyndon (1975)
La maman et la putain (1973)
Sansho Dayu (1954)
Wild Strawberries (1957)
Modern Times (1936)
Sunset Blvd. (1950)
The Night of the Hunter (1955)
Pickpocket (1959)
Rio Bravo (1959)
Blade Runner (1982)
Blue Velvet (1986)
Sans Soleil (1982)
A Man Escaped (1956)
The Third Man (1949)
L'eclisse (1962)
Les enfants du paradis (1945)
La Grande Illusion (1937)
Nashville (1975)
Chinatown (1974)
Beau Travail (1998)
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968)
The Magnificent Ambersons (1942)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
The Spirit of the Beehive (1973)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
Casablanca (1942)
The Colour of Pomegranates (1968)
Greed (1924)
A Brighter Summer Day (1991)
The Wild Bunch (1969)
Partie de campagne (1936)
Aguirre, Wrath of God (1972)
A Matter of Life and Death (1946)
The Seventh Seal (1957)
Un chien andalou (1928)
Intolerance (1916)
Yi Yi (2000)
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943)
Touki Bouki (1973)
Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
Imitation of Life (1959)
Madame de... (1953)

I've seen 86 films from this list. Here are the ones I haven't seen:

Shoah (1985)
Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (1975)
Journey to Italy (1954)
Gertrud (1964)
Histoire(s) du cinéma (1988-1998)
La maman et la putain (1973)
Sans Soleil (1982)
Beau Travail (1998)
A Matter of Life and Death (1946)
Un chien andalou (1928)
Intolerance (1916)
Touki Bouki (1973)
Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
Madame de... (1953)

How many films from the list have you seen so far, Rax?

[Raxivace]

I'm only at 74 seen of that list, so I'm not quite as high as you. I planned to knock some of these off this year but never got around to it lol.

What I haven't seen:

Mirror (1975)
Ordet (1955)
In the Mood for Love (2000)
Andrei Rublev (1966)
Shoah (1985)
Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (1975)
Sátántangó (1994)
La Dolce Vita (1960)
Pather Panchali (1955)
Gertrud (1964)
Playtime (1967)
Close-Up (1990)
The Leopard (1963)
La maman et la putain (1973)
Wild Strawberries (1957)
Sans Soleil (1982)
L'eclisse (1962)
Les enfants du paradis (1945)
Beau Travail (1998)
The Spirit of the Beehive (1973)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
The Colour of Pomegranates (1968)
Greed (1924)
A Matter of Life and Death (1946)
Yi Yi (2000)
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943)
Madame de... (1953)

A few of these I even own on blu-ray...

[Raxivace]

Anyways I dunno that I had a real point exactly with the 2012 list, but it is interesting to look at again. Does anything stand out at as too low to you, or too high? Or anything particularly interesting that stands out?

Looking at it again I'm kind of surprised The Godfather isn't a bit higher considering how popular it is, even if I personally do think Apocalypse Now is better as far as Coppola's own filmography goes.

[Raxivace]

Un Chien Andalou is real short btw, you can knock that out in like 20ish minutes.



EDIT: Huh that version doesn't have English subtitles. This version (Which is played at slightly higher speed I think) does but the picture doesn't look quite as nice to me.



EDIT 2: Wait maybe that second version isn't completely subtitled either? Man I dunno what's going on anymore.

[Lord_Lyndon]

I made a mistake. I saw 85 films from the list. I haven't seen von Stroheim's Greed (1924) too.

Does anything stand out at as too low to you, or too high?

Yes. I think The Rules of the Game (1939) and L'Atalante (1934) are too high. Neither of those really impressed me.
I also think The Seventh Seal (1957) and Yi Yi (2000) are way too low. I think both are timeless masterpieces and should be in the top 20.

Thanks for finding Bunuel's short film on youtube. I'll probably watch it when I'm in the mood for such experimental films.

[Raxivace]

I'd have to rewatch The Seventh Seal to say for sure how I feel about it, but I really agree with you on L'Atalante. Never understood the fuss with that one.

Rules of the Game I really like. Its incredibly French but I think its a superbly constructed film and probably Renoir's best.

[maz89]

I just saw Rules of the Game! Last week. The last time I saw it was 10 years ago. It didn't leave a huge impression on me back then. All I remembered of it was it was very talky, "well-made", and featured a tragic love story. But it struck a chord this time. The satire just clicked. I recoiled at the deception, the hypocrisy, the farce. That uncomfortably long hunting scene in the film's centerpiece didn't bore me this time. It horrified me. Not just because of the poor animals being guided to their slaughter, but the nonchalance of the characters killing for sport, again and again. It is that bloodlust that manifests for the last time in the climax of the film. In other words, I never realized how disturbing RotG was until I saw it again. No wonder the public hated it at the time of its release.

BTW, there was a sequence I thought came from this film: a long tracking shot of a woman descending the staircase into a courtyard... was that another Jean Renoir?

[maz89]

I've been rewatching other films.

I had to see All About Lily Chou-Chou again because I remember it had a fantastic soundtrack and it featured kids connecting online over their passion for an artist. Both of those things remain true, and, to add, the movie still dazzles visually. I also appreciate that pitch-perfect use of the shaky hand-held camera during that god-awful summer break. What I forgot was how awfully bleak the narrative was. It was heart-breaking to rediscover that BlueCat was Hoshima himself and that it leads to Philia finally breaking free from his passive, docile conditioning.

I also watched Pierrot le Fou a couple of weeks ago (thank you, Criterion Collection), and it was every bit as good as I remembered. Colorful, freewheeling, relentless. It shifts genres in the blink of an eye. It slows time down to a screeching halt (those hypnotic tangents in with the queen of Lebanon on the boat and the fisherman on the pier) before hurtling forward again. In reading up on the film recently, I learned that Godard struggled in making the film, calling it his 'first film', as he was not relying on the conventions of a specific genre unlike his previous works (this explains the pastiche we end up with Pierrot). He was also going through a divorce with Anna Karina, and the film is often read as a harrowing indictment against her. Anna, Godard's muse, leaves him just as Marianne, Anna's character, leaves and betrays Ferdinand in the film. Ferdinand, as a stand-in for Godard, is the failed writer who only becomes capable of creating art for the short duration the two live secluded from civilization. Finally, his strong views on the Vietnam War make it onto the film via the glimpses of the newsreels and, well, that troubling re-enactment put on for the Americans (the yellowface is just kinda in poor taste today, although perhaps that is the point about ugly stereotypes Godard was making then).

[Raxivace]

I just saw Rules of the Game! Last week. The last time I saw it was 10 years ago. It didn't leave a huge impression on me back then. All I remembered of it was it was very talky, "well-made", and featured a tragic love story. But it struck a chord this time. The satire just clicked. I recoiled at the deception, the hypocrisy, the farce. That uncomfortably long hunting scene in the film's centerpiece didn't bore me this time. It horrified me. Not just because of the poor animals being guided to their slaughter, but the nonchalance of the characters killing for sport, again and again. It is that bloodlust that manifests for the last time in the climax of the film. In other words, I never realized how disturbing RotG was until I saw it again. No wonder the public hated it at the time of its release.

Its been about as long since I've seen Rules myself, but its also hard not to view that hunting scene with the fact in mind that World War II was about to start like just a few months after the film came out.

BTW, there was a sequence I thought came from this film: a long tracking shot of a woman descending the staircase into a courtyard... was that another Jean Renoir?

I'm not sure tbh. First thing that came to mind when you described this was Sunset Blvd.'s ending but obv. that's way different of a film from a very different filmmaker.

[Raxivace]

I also watched Pierrot le Fou a couple of weeks ago (thank you, Criterion Collection), and it was every bit as good as I remembered. Colorful, freewheeling, relentless. It shifts genres in the blink of an eye. It slows time down to a screeching halt (those hypnotic tangents in with the queen of Lebanon on the boat and the fisherman on the pier) before hurtling forward again. In reading up on the film recently, I learned that Godard struggled in making the film, calling it his 'first film', as he was not relying on the conventions of a specific genre unlike his previous works (this explains the pastiche we end up with Pierrot). He was also going through a divorce with Anna Karina, and the film is often read as a harrowing indictment against her. Anna, Godard's muse, leaves him just as Marianne, Anna's character, leaves and betrays Ferdinand in the film. Ferdinand, as a stand-in for Godard, is the failed writer who only becomes capable of creating art for the short duration the two live secluded from civilization. Finally, his strong views on the Vietnam War make it onto the film via the glimpses of the newsreels and, well, that troubling re-enactment put on for the Americans (the yellowface is just kinda in poor taste today, although perhaps that is the point about ugly stereotypes Godard was making then).

This is one I need to rewatch myself. It was one of the first Godards I watched when I really started getting into his stuff though I found it pretty alienating at the time. Having seen like 40+ of his movies now I'm sure I wouldn't find it nearly as offputting lol, and I even picked up the Criterion blu in a sale recently.

The last Godard I watched myself a few weeks ago was Germany Year 90 Nine Zero but I didn't really have a strong impression of it despite being another Lemmy Caution movie. Its pretty different than Alphaville at least since that at least tries to be a straight sci-fi noir thing more or less, while GY9090 was mostly Caution mumbling about German history.

[Raxivace]

Also I wonder if the Cowboy Bebop (The anime version, not the shitty live action Netflix series) episode called "Pierrot le Fou" was named after the Godard movie? They have absolutely nothing in common otherwise from what I can tell, but I've not heard that title anywhere else before.

[maz89]

Haven't seen Cowboy Bebop, so I can't comment. But to your point on radical Godard, I think I gave up after a few of those films... and you're not making me regret my decision.

[Raxivace]

His post-Maoism films vary in quality but some of them are still really good tbh. Everyman for Himself, Histoire(s) du Cinema, Hail Mary, Rise and Fall of a Small Film Company (My favorite Leaud performance tbh), Helas Pour Moi, Image Book etc.

I think he's actually more ambitious here than in his classic 60's period and certainly his Maoist period (Though even the latter has its moments, like the misguided but interesting movie about the infamous "Hanoi Jane" photograph), but occasionally yeah he'll fall flat on his face trying to make some impressive pole vault jump.

[maz89]

Well, now you're tempting me. Any particular movie of his from that list you mentioned I could try my luck with first?

[Raxivace]

Every Man for Himself is probably the most accessible movie on that list and feels like pretty natural extension of some of his 60's films. I'd probably start there.

[Faustus5]

Also I wonder if the Cowboy Bebop (The anime version, not the shitty live action Netflix series) episode called "Pierrot le Fou" was named after the Godard movie?

I've been watching the live action Netflix Cowboy Bebop and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

Then again, I know nothing about the original source material so it doesn't need to live up to anything in my head. (As a general rule, I avoid anime like the plague. For some reason animation has always turned me off and despite trying to give various classics a try I never made it past the first 15 minutes or so of anything them, Akira being the sole exception. And I barely made it through that.)

[Raxivace]

Faustus man I love ya but I think we have polar opposite tastes.

[Derived Absurdity]

So do we sometimes but one thing he and I agree on is that anime is of the Devil.

[Faustus5]

So do we sometimes but one thing he and I agree on is that anime is of the Devil.

My thing is that I'm really into the craft of acting, and there isn't an animator on earth who can bring all the subtlety to face and gestures that an even half rate actor can. I don't even need to see the anime version of Cowboy Bebop to know with 100% moral certainty that nothing there matches the fun charisma that John Cho and Daniella Pineda have in the live action version.

And by the way, why am I having increasing problems accessing this site through Firefox? The only way I can get here now is through Edge.

[Derived Absurdity]

Yeah I get that.

I also can't access this site through my bookmark on Chrome. I have to go the roundabout way by clicking on a link in my history.

[Kuribo4]

My thing is that I'm really into the craft of acting, and there isn't an animator on earth who can bring all the subtlety to face and gestures that an even half rate actor can.

Anime isn't trying to imitate actors. If this were the case, anime directors would do live action. You could say the same for aspects of live action, that no matter how good special effects get, CGI will never blend in as well with actors as animated objects do with animated characters. But I think such comparisons are kinda pointless, since if a medium is chosen for a work, it's ususally for that medium's strength.

In any case, animated characters are more than expressive enough, and ambiguity might even be the point at times.

I don't even need to see the anime version of Cowboy Bebop to know with 100% moral certainty that nothing there matches the fun charisma that John Cho and Daniella Pineda have in the live action version.

Actually you do need to see it to make such a judgement lol. Especially when it's about what is generally considered a classic.

[Gendo]

Yeah I get that.

I also can't access this site through my bookmark on Chrome. I have to go the roundabout way by clicking on a link in my history.

Huh, what URL is your bookmark pointed to? If you go to http://forum.pittersplace.com/ then it should be set up to auto-redirect you to http://pittersplace.com/forum/, which is the real URL that the site works from. If the redirect isn't working for you for some reason, then make sure your bookmark is set to the second one instead of the first.

[Derived Absurdity]

Thanks, it's fixed.

[Faustus5]

Huh, what URL is your bookmark pointed to? If you go to http://forum.pittersplace.com/ then it should be set up to auto-redirect you to http://pittersplace.com/forum/, which is the real URL that the site works from. If the redirect isn't working for you for some reason, then make sure your bookmark is set to the second one instead of the first.

At this point, my only access to this forum is through my work computer or work phone. On my personal PC, no matter what browser I use in whatever way I try to access the site and no matter what I call it, my anti-virus software blocks access because it is convinced the site is a security threat. This has been happening gradually over time, with access beginning to get difficult to now where it is impossible.

Why would this happen here and never at a single other board I visit?

[Gendo]

Huh, what URL is your bookmark pointed to? If you go to http://forum.pittersplace.com/ then it should be set up to auto-redirect you to http://pittersplace.com/forum/, which is the real URL that the site works from. If the redirect isn't working for you for some reason, then make sure your bookmark is set to the second one instead of the first.

At this point, my only access to this forum is through my work computer or work phone. On my personal PC, no matter what browser I use in whatever way I try to access the site and no matter what I call it, my anti-virus software blocks access because it is convinced the site is a security threat. This has been happening gradually over time, with access beginning to get difficult to now where it is impossible.

Why would this happen here and never at a single other board I visit?

Huh that is super weird! There was an issue about a year ago where Google had flagged the site because a Wordpress blog that is also hosted here had gotten hacked/spammed with a bunch of malicious files, but that was fully cleaned up including getting Google and FortiClient to update their records. I wonder if your particular anti-virus flagged the site during that time and then never found out that the issue was dealt with... Can you tell me the name of the software that's blocking it? They might have a reporting system to fix things like this.

[Faustus5]

Can you tell me the name of the software that's blocking it? They might have a reporting system to fix things like this.

Should be McAfee Livesafe. On Windows 7 (old computer, was advised not to attempt updating to 10).

Doubly weird that this issue would have gradually escalated over a few weeks, too, without me doing anything.

[maz89]

Pleasantly surprised to find La Grande Bellezza on Netflix a while ago. I remember wanting to see it again when I saw it the first time (back in 2014, which I realize was so, so long ago).

So glad I saw it again. The film is like contemporary Fellini with a matching score, featuring music ranging from classical to minimal techno to pop. The story is told through episodic, free-flowing vignettes and centers around an older writer struggling with writer's block since the release of his first novel a decade ago. This is a movie about the world he lives in, a world that revolves around his job as a journalist, extravagant parties, eccentric art shows, loveless affairs and a small circle of friends that are perhaps as disillusioned with their lives as they are with Rome. There's a lot of tragedy and beauty, hedonism and spirituality, apathy and wonder, but other than sublime visuals, what really ties it together for me is the music. Something as simple as Jep's meeting with Ramona, a stripper who is a daughter of Jep's friend, at the night club where she works turns almost mysterious and electric with that pulsating beat in the back. Will definitely be viewing it for a third time.

[Lord_Lyndon]

La Grande Bellezza has been on my watchlist for quite some time now. I heard it was similar to La Dolce Vita, which is my favourite Fellini film and one of my favourite films of all time. Hopefully I will be able to see it finally next year.

[maz89]

Hope so too! This is certainly a more contemporary take on La Dolce Vita. Maybe a bit more wonder, a bit more hope. Definitely, a lot more noticeable soundtrack. Anyway, I hope LGB works for you as well as it did for me.

[maz89]

Loved White Lotus, an HBO series created by Mike White that came out last year (that is, mid-2021). I thoroughly enjoyed his earlier underrated Enlightened, and I'm so glad he brought his dark humor to this story about upper class guests vacationing at a hotel in Hawaii and broaching themes of class, colonialism and power imbalance in relationships. This is going to be an anthology series, so definitely looking forward to season 2.

[Raxivace]

Loved White Lotus, an HBO series created by Mike White that came out last year (that is, mid-2021). I thoroughly enjoyed his earlier underrated Enlightened, and I'm so glad he brought his dark humor to this story about upper class guests vacationing at a hotel in Hawaii and broaching themes of class, colonialism and power imbalance in relationships. This is going to be an anthology series, so definitely looking forward to season 2.

I never saw White Lotus, but I loved School of Rock back in the day and the season of Survivor that Mike White was on a few years ago was really quite good (And he damn near won that season too!).

[Raxivace]

He was probably thinking up White Lotus during this scene.

[maz89]

Haha! Haven't seen Survivor, but I loved School of Rock too. Jack Black was tailor made for the role.