The Pitters' Place

I think the original star wars are not something you can get into now this late... Either you saw them in the years they came out or you won't get into them. I remember standing in line for return of the jedi for 12 hours...
you just had to be there

Islandmur wrote:I think the original star wars are not something you can get into now this late... Either you saw them in the years they came out or you won't get into them. I remember standing in line for return of the jedi for 12 hours...
you just had to be there

This might help:

Derived Absurdity wrote:Yeah.

So I just saw The Phantom Menace. LOL. It was sort of what I was expecting. Bad... but not in an entertaining way. It was just bad. I have to admit the pod racing was kind of cool, though. And Darth Maul was sort of badass, even though he died like a little bitch.

But yeah... my biggest problem with the original trilogy is that there was too little genuine emotion or depth, and that seriously was taken up to eleven in TPM. Absolutely zero emotion. I couldn't even describe most of the characters. Hell, I can barely even describe the plot. Nothing made sense. Seriously, what was that? Oh well. Attack of the Clones next!

Pod racing? Are you insane? The best part was obviously Jar Jar Binks...

LOL, you so funny.

I heard Jar Jar Binks is secretly a Sith Lord or some shit.

Darth Jar Jar.

I've heard if JJ Abrams fucks this one up he'll forever be known as Jar Jar Abrams.

I'm afraid it's already fucked up. Star Wars was about the Skywalker family; especially the father, son and daughter dynamic. That should have remained. Han and Leia should have one or two children who are the main protagonists who have to seek help and guidance from their uncle Luke the way their father and grandfather were both guided by Obi-Wan before Anakin decided to become the galaxy's most evil whiny bitch. Without the family dynamic I'm not sure it's even Star Wars. Then again we didn't know about the family dynamic of the original trilogy until near the end of the second film or that Leia was part of it until the third so there may be some surprises in this latest trilogy as well. My bet: Chewbacca and C3PO have been having a secret love affair for decades and R2 has been blackmailing them.

Islandmur wrote:I think the original star wars are not something you can get into now this late... Either you saw them in the years they came out or you won't get into them. I remember standing in line for return of the jedi for 12 hours...
you just had to be there

I was never that big of a fan although I knew people who were. I saw all three within just a few months of their original release but I can remember seeing well over a thousand people in line at my hometown theater when the first movie was released and this was a town of under 3,000. The theater held maybe 200 people at the time and had only one screen. It was the first time that theater ever had multiple showings in one night.

Cassius Clay wrote:Plus John Williams is back (the musical composer for all my childhood movies...Indiana Jones, E.T., Back to the Future, Jurassic Park).

Back to the Future was by Alan Silvestri.

My brother just watched the new film and said that it was better than the prequels, so... that's good to know.

@DA - yeah, you had to be there. I love the Star Wars fandom and extended universe more than the movies, and the best thing about the movies for me was the worldbuilding and the larger complex universe it hinted at. It was also a huge part of my childhood because my father is a big fan; I saw the films before I knew how to talk. As a baby, my brother wouldn't be able to fall asleep unless the Imperial March was blasting in the background, possibly because he heard it lots of times while he was in the womb. Then as a pre-teen and teenager it was my first fandom. I devoured all the Star Wars novels I could get my hands on. Most of them were far more epic than anything in the movies. So there's a lot of nostalgia and happy memories associated with Star Wars.

Man, nostalgia really fucks people up.

Anakin McFly wrote:

Cassius Clay wrote:Plus John Williams is back (the musical composer for all my childhood movies...Indiana Jones, E.T., Back to the Future, Jurassic Park).

Back to the Future was by Alan Silvestri.

That's strange. I've had a few discussions with people about how John William's scores all sound like remixes of each other(Hans Zimmer too)...and Back to the Future is normally included. Alan Silvestri has some explaining to do...

CashRules wrote:I'm afraid it's already fucked up. Star Wars was about the Skywalker family; especially the father, son and daughter dynamic. That should have remained. Han and Leia should have one or two children who are the main protagonists who have to seek help and guidance from their uncle Luke the way their father and grandfather were both guided by Obi-Wan before Anakin decided to become the galaxy's most evil whiny bitch. Without the family dynamic I'm not sure it's even Star Wars. Then again we didn't know about the family dynamic of the original trilogy until near the end of the second film or that Leia was part of it until the third so there may be some surprises in this latest trilogy as well. My bet: Chewbacca and C3PO have been having a secret love affair for decades and R2 has been blackmailing them.

I heard Jar Jar Abrams say in an interview that what really got him interested in directing Star Wars was the question "who is Luke Skywalker?" That after a few decades there's a sort of legend of Luke Skywalker...and only a few people know the stories to be true. And uncovering the legend through their own adventure is part of the journey for these new characters. Just like how Luke learns about the mysterious history of the Jedi and the force, and the legend of Anakin Skywalker, and Ben Kenobi's mysterious history...and discovering Yoda, etc. I gained more confidence in Abrams when i heard that. It just feels like Star Wars....coming full circle. And he has stressed the use of practical effects over CGI. I think he really gets it.

Plus I hear he is close friends with Simon Pegg...who has publicly praised RLM's scathing reviews of the prequels. Another good sign.

Just bought tickets for Monday night.

Noice.

What I also like about the idea centering new protagonists who are discovering the truth about the legend of force and the Skywalkers, rather than centering the Skywalkers (which honestly would be boring), is that next generation folks could start watching the saga from here(which would give Luke more of that aura of mystery), and discover the story just as the characters do. And then go back and watch the originals. Just like the previous generation did with the originals and their prequels. Except they get to double that experience because they get to go back to originals, learn about other mysteries, and then go to the prequels where it's finally all ruined for them.

Though it seems really weird to me that these sorts of things would be "legend" only 30 years later.... this should be just basic recent history.

Gendo wrote:Though it seems really weird to me that these sorts of things would be "legend" only 30 years later.... this should be just basic recent history.

If Luke disappeared after the victory on the Death Star, to become some kind of super jedi Master or whatever, then discovering what happened during those mysterious 30 years could be interesting.

Yeah...if not many people know too much about what really happened(especially if Luke disappeared)...I can see how it could be thought of as "legend"(unless there's a better word for it) to certain people(Especially to poor scavengers who live on the outskirts of civilization).

Some people mentioned that it was a very big galaxy and all this stuff happened on just a handful of planets. So I guess there's the space factor as well as just time, where people had heard these rumours of epic things happening far away from them.

John William's scores all sound like remixes of each other(Hans Zimmer too)

Yep, they do! Silvestri's scores sound different from his, though - they're lighter, using fewer instruments at one go and with more separation between the higher and lower registers, and a fondness for long strings of running high notes (usually flutes); Williams' stuff has more of a rich booming classical epic feel with more decisive, drawn-out notes that uses all the instruments, and Hans Zimmer likes his percussion. /ex band nerd

Cassius Clay wrote:I agree that it's best to watch it in order of release. But I wish I could erase my memory to see what it's like to watch chronologically. Because a lot of the younger generation have watched it that way.

Nah, that totally undermines the whole Vader/Luke relationship twist

Monk wrote:

Cassius Clay wrote:I agree that it's best to watch it in order of release. But I wish I could erase my memory to see what it's like to watch chronologically. Because a lot of the younger generation have watched it that way.

Nah, that totally undermines the whole Vader/Luke relationship twist

It might also have people shouting at the screen "Dude, she's your sister!" during most of the first movie.

Cash, there's books that tell the story of the children of Leia and Han and how one was turned to the dark side and the other, a girl was training to be a Jedi. It's an interesting little follow up story.

Anakin McFly wrote:Some people mentioned that it was a very big galaxy and all this stuff happened on just a handful of planets. So I guess there's the space factor as well as just time, where people had heard these rumours of epic things happening far away from them.

John William's scores all sound like remixes of each other(Hans Zimmer too)

Yep, they do! Silvestri's scores sound different from his, though - they're lighter, using fewer instruments at one go and with more separation between the higher and lower registers, and a fondness for long strings of running high notes (usually flutes); Williams' stuff has more of a rich booming classical epic feel with more decisive, drawn-out notes that uses all the instruments, and Hans Zimmer likes his percussion. /ex band nerd

You know your composers.

*deleted*

Monk wrote:

Cassius Clay wrote:I agree that it's best to watch it in order of release. But I wish I could erase my memory to see what it's like to watch chronologically. Because a lot of the younger generation have watched it that way.

Nah, that totally undermines the whole Vader/Luke relationship twist

Indeed.

Just watched it! It's great, one of the best movies I've seen recently, though not the brilliant mind-blowing masterpiece I was hoping for. I'd say it's at a similar quality with the original trilogy, but with much better visuals and faster paced storytelling.

And I didn't expect to get so emotional when 'Episode VII' appeared in the opening crawl. Hit me right in the gut. It's been so long.

A local Star Trek fanclub also popped up for the screening wearing T-shirts that said 'Singapore Trekkies'.

Did it have more emotion?

Yes. Of all sorts. When will you get to see it?

Within a week I think.

Gypsy-Vanner wrote:Cash, there's books that tell the story...

You might want to cover the bit about books that follow Han and Leia's children(and one turning to the dark side) because that could be a huge fucking spoiler for people like me that don't read/watch stuff outside the movies. My brain puts shit together too easily(while I'm actively trying to stop the wheels in my head from turning )...I'm like a goddamn detective..and I think the "twist" might be ruined for me now. One of the twists I was thinking of was one of many possibilities, but I didn't take it too seriously because it seemed too far-fetched....but now that I know that the books talk about one of Han and Leia's children going to the dark side(which I wasn't aware of)...it seems much more probably now...and honestly inevitable.

General tip: do your best to avoid internet sites related to entertainment or movies. Spoilers are everywhere, sometimes unintentionally, like when people think it's good enough to blank out key words but the context of the sentence makes it obvious what they're talking about. And don't google any of the actors or any Star Wars thing, because there'll be spoilers all over. At the movie theatre, avoid people who have just finished the movie, because some of them talk very loudly.

Saw it last night at Alamo Drafthouse.

It was...good. Made up for the prequels, but that wasn't hard to do. I wish the light saber battle had been better & there were a few too many familiar story beats.

You know, that's one of the most bizarre things about the prequels that I don't really hear much about when people are bashing them. I'm referring to all the complex political bullshit that nobody gives a damn about(people barely care about complex political shit in the real world, and they thought people would tolerate that in a made up universe?), while simultaneously pandering to really young kids. I'd say the original target audience was around ages 12 and up, but the prequels really felt like they were going out of their way to make really young kids interested...while putting all this absurdly complicated political stuff in the almost every aspect of the plot at the same time(instead of a few broad references to the politics once in a while...in the background, for context). The prequels did not know what they wanted to be. Just shamelessly trying to appeal to as many people as possible to make money and sell shit.

That's why, even if it's not the greatest movie ever, people are just glad that Star Wars is itself again. It would be awesome if it turned out to be the best Star Wars trilogy, but I'm just happy if it feels like Star Wars again.

I hear that complaint all the time. It was actually one of the major complaints in the first Red Letter Media review, wasn't it?

That was the first major thing I noticed, anyway. The original Star Wars didn't feel like it was pandering to young kids, Jar Jar-style (until the Ewoks, maybe, or whatever they're called). It was just a sci-fi story. It was palatable to kids, but it wasn't targeting them. The Phantom Menace definitely was... which makes it odd that it has such an obnoxiously convoluted and incredibly boring political storyline.

This article lays some of it out. http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-the-ph ... 1742188503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a side note, this thing where you have a series which is palatable to kids but not specifically for them slowly morphing into something far more immature and kid-friendly seems really popular and it bugs the shit out of me. It's not just Star Wars... it's a lot of things. A Series of Unfortunate Events is an example. Some video game franchises have done it. Movies. Etc. It's annoying.

Yeah...first time I saw that explicitly mentioned was when I saw the RLM reviews a few years back. But, I mean in general I don't really hear about what a bizarre juxtaposition that was.

Studio executives have been sucking out the heart of franchises by desperately trying to broaden the audience for a few decades now. It's just cynical capitalism. The first Robocop was gritty, violent, and had decent political commentary(I loved it as a kid but probably shouldn't have been watching that kind of brutal violence). The first Ninja Turtles was good/dark too...then just got goofier and goofier in an attempt to pander to even younger audiences. At least those movies committed to their pandering. Star Wars was just confused.

I really want to find out just what happened behind-the-scenes with those movies. Why they turned out to be what they are. That would be fascinating.

That article is on point too. Puts into words some things I've failed to articulate well. Like the idea of "people who are nothing becoming something". This is why I said centering the Skywalker kids wouldn't be quite right. Luke was nothing, Solo was morally ambiguous and without purpose. And they came together by chance to serve an important purpose and became good friends. That is at the heart of Star Wars.

Actually Leia's slave bikini is the heart of Star Wars.

That's more like the id.

I've been reading a bunch of stories about people who are like me - who were cajoled to or just chose to watch the old Star Wars movies recently for the first time as an adult in lieu of TFA with no nostalgia, and literally 100% of them had pretty much the same reaction I did. The characters are boring and one-dimensional. The story makes no sense. The world-building is bad. The dialogue is flat and wooden when it isn't trying to be cute (when it just comes off as sexually harassing). There are are no profound emotional moments or any narrative depth. The acting is mostly bad. And above all it's just boring. There's no example I've heard of someone in the 21st century seeing these movies for the first time without nostalgia and saying, "Wow, those really were great movies!"

So, yeah, it's true, Star Wars is really about the experience than it is about the quality of the movies themselves. That's how it is with probably all fandom to an extent. I remember when I was really into Harry Potter, and I would have said I liked the books, when I was probably more into the experience of it - being part of a shared collective, talking about it with other people, fan fiction (sorry), going to the bookstores, making fun of the movies, etc - than the books, since the books aren't very good.

Sorry, I'm just too cool to like Star Wars.

Also Red Letter Media said black people don't like Star Wars. So you're weird. Weirdo.

It is true that Star Wars is about more than the individual quality of the films, but this:

The characters are boring and one-dimensional. The story makes no sense. The world-building is bad. The dialogue is flat and wooden when it isn't trying to be cute (when it just comes off as sexually harassing). There are are no profound emotional moments or any narrative depth. The acting is mostly bad. And above all it's just boring.

is just pretentious nonsense. Even the prequels, as bad as they are, can't be accurately described that way. A movie this empty and horrible is somehow one of the most beloved movies of all time. What a miracle.

lol, why is that?

Isn't all that mostly what I said at the beginning of this thread anyway?

Because it's seems like a transparent attempt to appear to have sophisticated taste by being edgy and hyperbolic?

I've seen a few folks claim to have recently enjoyed the old movies on their first viewing in anticipation for the new one, I introduced my younger brother to it years ago and he enjoyed it...and, though, I didn't like them that much when I was really young(because I didn't know what the fuck was going on when I was 4), I started genuinely enjoying the story and the characters the older I got. There is value to the saga beyond nostalgia and shared experience. The Indiana Jones movies hold a lot of nostalgic value for me(way more that Star Wars does), but I actually enjoy those movies much less as an adult.

Derived Absurdity wrote:Isn't all that mostly what I said at the beginning of this thread anyway?

No, you seemed to have gone from "these movies are just okay, I don't get the hype" to "these movies are trash." There's a telling inconsistency there.

No, if I was trying to be edgy I would be defending the prequels.

It's not all that hyperbolic to me... pretty standard list of what I was thinking when I was watching them. All that went through my head. And many many people have said far worse things than that about them, and they didn't seem to be trying to be edgy.

Then you must have a peculiar metric if you still managed to conclude that the movie was "okay" with those kinds of extreme critiques on your "pretty standard list" of thoughts about the movie.

"These characters sucked ass, I didn't give a shit about anything happening, the story bored me to sleep, nothing made any sense, I almost killed myself. Soooooo...in conclusion, it was just okay 7/10". lmao

What can I say? I'm a generous person.

My theory: I feel if you're an adult who hasn't watched Star Wars yet then it is more than likely you're not into the sci fi genre as a whole, so hearing all these stories of adults not liking the saga on first viewing isn't much of a surprise to me.