Another god damn fucking school shooting

[sikax]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/oregon ... index.html

Why does this keep fucking happening?

[Blade Azaezel]

Because 'Murica.

[Blade Azaezel]

White people, they're fucking crazy.

[aels]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... this-36131

[Blade Azaezel]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... this-36131

Gah! Beat me to it.

[sikax]

Thanks guys

[Blade Azaezel]

You're welcome!!

[aels]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... this-36131

Gah! Beat me to it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you need to get up pretty early in the day to beat ol Aels. 10, maybe even 10:30 AM.

[Blade Azaezel]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... this-36131

Gah! Beat me to it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you need to get up pretty early in the day to beat ol Aels. 10, maybe even 10:30 AM.

Some of us have a soul to slowly wither and waste inside the corporate machine. Not me...but, y'know...some

[aels]

Hey, I have been to work *three* times this week #highflyer

[Blade Azaezel]

Hey, I have been to work *three* times this week #highflyer

I have booked tomorrow off, as I am finally meeting up with my ladyfriend and also Monday because I don't wanna be cleaning up the mess left by my colleagues having done all my Friday work. I intend to rock up on Tuesday to an easy life, and woe betide anyone who prevents that from happening!

[aels]

AW YISS YOU'RE GONNA GET A SMOOCHING

[Blade Azaezel]

AW YISS YOU'RE GONNA GET A SMOOCHING

HA! I very much doubt that will happen on account of how goddamn awkward I'll be...but at least I can say i'll have met her once, before she never texts me again.

[aels]

And really, is there anything more we romantically awkward ninnies can hope for than the fleeting illusion of human contact?

[Blade Azaezel]

And really, is there anything more we romantically awkward ninnies can hope for than the fleeting illusion of human contact?

I'll just be happy if she gets off the train long enough to speak to me. She's passing through on the way home. I half expect her to spot me on the platform from inside the train carriage, think better of vacating the train, and just pretend she doesn't see me crying as it pulls away

[aels]

Dress like this, chicks dig this:

[Blade Azaezel]

Way ahead of you!



I mean, if this doesn't work, I don't know what will. We all know women are whores who love bad boys.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

[CashRules]

I can't even stand to read the articles on this because the comments will be nothing but right-wing assholes arguing with left-wing assholes. Conspiracy theorists will have videos on Youtube by this time tomorrow claiming it's a hoax.

[Anakin McFly]

^this is the kind of thing for which it's good to make a bingo card.

[BruceSmith78]

In a country that clamors over celebrities and is infested with sensationalized media, this is an easy and quick path to fame. Any schmuck that feels beaten down by society can make a splash by doing this shit, and as long as our media caters to them and we all slurp it up with a fucking spoon, it's gonna keep happening.

[Gendo]

In a country that clamors over celebrities and is infested with sensationalized media, this is an easy and quick path to fame. Any schmuck that feels beaten down by society can make a splash by doing this shit, and as long as our media caters to them and we all slurp it up with a fucking spoon, it's gonna keep happening.

All this. More too I'm sure, like lack of ways of dealing with mental health issues, but definitely that.

[Gendo]

The sheriff makes step in the right direction:

Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin said the gunman was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with officers at Umpqua Community College. Hanlin refused to name the killer, saying,
"I will not give him the credit he probably sought prior to this horrific and cowardly act. You will never hear me mention his name."

[thesalmonofdoubt]

In a country that clamors over celebrities and is infested with sensationalized media, this is an easy and quick path to fame. Any schmuck that feels beaten down by society can make a splash by doing this shit, and as long as our media caters to them and we all slurp it up with a fucking spoon, it's gonna keep happening.

Probably feeds into the problem but, this is true of almost every first world nation .. Martin Bryant is still well remembered here and internationally for his killing spree.

I have no real idea why America has this issue - mental health is treated here with much the same short comings as almost anywhere else .. you have a bigger issue with poverty than we have but these shooting don't follow a poor equals mass murderer pathology as far as I can tell.

[Blade Azaezel]

I don't know why the media even bother. The sky is blue, water is wet and there's another shooting in America.

[Blade Azaezel]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us- ... li=AAaeUIW

"The massacre is the deadliest shooting in the US since...June." JUNE! For fuck's sake, America. That's only 3 months. You realise most countries can go decades without having to quote the words "deadliest shooting since..."? What a joke.

[Whitey]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... t-him.html

At least gradually I'm starting to see a few news outlets start reporting things the right way and not focussing on the killers.

[BruceSmith78]

In a country that clamors over celebrities and is infested with sensationalized media, this is an easy and quick path to fame. Any schmuck that feels beaten down by society can make a splash by doing this shit, and as long as our media caters to them and we all slurp it up with a fucking spoon, it's gonna keep happening.

Probably feeds into the problem but, this is true of almost every first world nation .. Martin Bryant is still well remembered here and internationally for his killing spree.

I have no real idea why America has this issue - mental health is treated here with much the same short comings as almost anywhere else .. you have a bigger issue with poverty than we have but these shooting don't follow a poor equals mass murderer pathology as far as I can tell.

I think America takes it well beyond most first world nations.



^ Has anything like this happened in Australia?

I haven't heard of Martin Bryant, but how many movies does he have made after him? Those fuckwads in Columbine started a trend here. Elephant and Day Zero are the most obvious, but look at this list:

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls070532039/

I'm sure there's more than a few that got left out, too.

Also, I don't want to start playing the mental illness card already. Maybe the white supremacy card, like when entitled white men don't get what they feel they deserve, they gotta go murder some folks. That might have something to do with it.

[aels]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us- ... li=AAaeUIW

"The massacre is the deadliest shooting in the US since...June." JUNE! For fuck's sake, America. That's only 3 months. You realise most countries can go decades without having to quote the words "deadliest shooting since..."? What a joke.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk ... reds-dead/
294 mass shootings in 274 days. What the fucking fuck.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us- ... li=AAaeUIW

"The massacre is the deadliest shooting in the US since...June." JUNE! For fuck's sake, America. That's only 3 months. You realise most countries can go decades without having to quote the words "deadliest shooting since..."? What a joke.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk ... reds-dead/
294 mass shootings in 274 days. What the fucking fuck.

What I read is that the Washington Post manipulated the statistics to inflate the number of mass shootings to support their liberal, left-leaning, socialist agenda. Nevermind that there have been 294 instances in 274 days in which four or more people were shot.

[Gypsy-Vanner]

Well:
1. we don't have any sort of decent mental health facilities so all our crazies are roaming the streets.

2. we have been a country of awesomely stupid ideals like abstinence and anti-immigration and climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers and those idiots pass those stupid ideas onto their children and anyone else they feel they can manipulate and the result is a group of stupid that shout incredibly loud so as to drown out everyone else and encourage their followers to do violence

3. such oppression as above can have some nasty adverse affects on members and they struggle trying to reconcile the vile hate of their leaders with the age of free knowledge and it can really push them over the edge and then bad things can happen.

4. Refer back to 1

[Cassius Clay]

I've heard and agree that this needs to be framed as more of a cultural/personality disorder issue than a mental illness issue.

[Dr_Liszt]

Well:
1. we don't have any sort of decent mental health facilities so all our crazies are roaming the streets.

2. we have been a country of awesomely stupid ideals like abstinence and anti-immigration and climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers and those idiots pass those stupid ideas onto their children and anyone else they feel they can manipulate and the result is a group of stupid that shout incredibly loud so as to drown out everyone else and encourage their followers to do violence

3. such oppression as above can have some nasty adverse affects on members and they struggle trying to reconcile the vile hate of their leaders with the age of free knowledge and it can really push them over the edge and then bad things can happen.

4. Refer back to 1

We also have all of that and we don't experience this. We only had it happened once in a very remote place. And we are probably the second most violent country in all the American continent.

I'd say it's no.1
I do think pharmaceuticals have a lot of to do with it. For example Columbine, Eric Harris confessed he was having homicidal/suicidal thoughts and that he needed help. All that their parents did was give him a pill and forget about it. And it's like No. You help, you listen to the kid, you change his environment... stupid pills won't take care of the underlying problems of mental health!!! And Americans take a ridiculous amount of pills. I have a cousin who has aspergers, he doesn't take any medication for it. And it's scary how everything is "take a pill". Even when I moved to the States they wanted to regulate my period and I was like "wtf? let my body regulate itself!!!" Silly Americans. So basically it's the culture of approaching problems and give it a palliative treatment rather that actually treating it.

So no, it's no.1 and the fact that the U.S has terrible health and education systems. When countries have competent health and education systems violence drops. Combined with the fact the media give them immediate stardom, combined with white supremacy, combined with the fact humans suck.

[Cassius Clay]

In a country that clamors over celebrities and is infested with sensationalized media, this is an easy and quick path to fame. Any schmuck that feels beaten down by society can make a splash by doing this shit, and as long as our media caters to them and we all slurp it up with a fucking spoon, it's gonna keep happening.

Yeah....I fear the more this happens the more normalized it's becoming. So, disgruntled weirdos are more and more likely to see this as a legitimate step to take. It's like they're communicating to each other that this is an ok thing to do.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

From reading through all the coverage (apart from the obvious numb feeling that is now de rigueur for these things) the obvious message that seems to be coming through from most people in America is that more prayer is the answer.

I'm surprised this hasn't been thought of and tried before really.

[Gypsy-Vanner]

Unfortunately, the US has limited research in regards to mass shootings so until the experts can sort out the BS from the empirical data mass shootings will continue to be a problem.

Everything I have read about mass shootings and the motivations of the shooters suggest a multitude of possible factors included but not limited to:

1. Mental health: over prescribing medicines (as you mentioned Liz), chemical disorders like Bi Polarism and Manic Depressive etc...
2. Cultural influence i.e. traditional values, religious beliefs etc... (I agree Troy to your comment)
3. Environmental influences: media, natural disasters (< this I read from a paper called Auto Genic something or other, interesting theories posited from psychology professors about how natural disasters can affect people, I'll see if I can find it)

As far as I know numbers 2 and 3 (except the natural disasters) represent the most common factors leading to mass violence. The research that has been done and analyzed indicate mental health issues as unlikely in most cases which is crazy because if you listen to the media (refer to 3) they have us all believe that mass shootings are done by disturbed teenagers who played too many violent video games.

The US has reached a pivotal point within it's existence. I feel like that kids game Hungry Hungry Hippos is the most accurate depiction of where we stand as a nation, several factions fighting tooth and nail for the marbles.

[CashRules]

Since nobody else will say it I'll just go ahead and say it. If it can be done without infringing upon the rights of people who have no intent of harming others, then we need laws that help prevent mentally unstable people from having access to firearms. I doubt any such thing can be done since in almost every mass shooting the murderer(s) violated at least one gun control law in addition to committing multiple homicides. If the best legislators can come up with are laws that make it difficult for me to own whatever guns I want while doing absolutely nothing to reduce violent crime (which to date has always been the case), then they may kindly go sodomize themselves with a broken beer bottle.

[Gendo]

What are your thoughts on the argument that if guns were harder to get legally, then they would become much more expensive and thus harder to get illegally? I mean, I'm sure I know your general thoughts, but specifically?

[Cassius Clay]

Well, from what I've been hearing, there needs to be a serious distinction made between personality disorders and mental illness. Mental illness is typically the classic scapegoat in these conversations(unless the person is Muslim). So, mentality ill people are being thrown under the bus to protect a cultural sickness(when in reality mentality ill people are far more likely to be harmed/harm themselves than harm others). It's an easy cop out. Not every person that does some horrible shit should be so quickly classified as mentally ill. That's a slippery slope....every person that does something horrendous that you can't comprehend can then be classified as mentally ill and are deserving of some kind of sympathy. Every torturer, rapist, human-trafficker is "mentally ill". And the link between fucked up cultural attitudes(toxic masculinity, for example) and personality disorders needs to be highlighted/investigated. Why these mass shooters tend to be men with certain cultural attitudes needs to be a major focus. Why men are more likely to be emotionally immature/stunted with very inflexible mental frameworks for processing/expressing emotion....why that has cultural roots that manifest some really fucked up personality traits. How men are probably more likely to internalize abuse because part of being successful as a "man" is being able to "take it" and "give it back"...and abused person with that limited mental/emotional framework is likely to become a psycho themselves.

[CashRules]

What are your thoughts on the argument that if guns were harder to get legally, then they would become much more expensive and thus harder to get illegally? I mean, I'm sure I know your general thoughts, but specifically?

I can buy weed cheaper in Tennessee than I could if I lived in Colorado and I can have it delivered to my front door here. But there are, of course, difference between marijuana and guns that aren't addressed by that first sentence. What is addressed is that to kill a large number of people you don't need a large number of illegal guns, you only need one. Also, they could institute a complete ban on firearms today and a .25 ACP semi-auto will never cost more than $200. That one gun is so small I can conceal it in the palm of one hand and a shooter can kill seven people with it before reloading and reload six more rounds in less than a second.

[CashRules]

Well, from what I've been hearing, there needs to be a serious distinction made between personality disorders and mental illness. Mental illness is typically the classic scapegoat in these conversations(unless the person is Muslim). So, mentality ill people are being thrown under the bus to protect a cultural sickness(when in reality mentality ill people are far more likely to be harmed/harm themselves than harm others). It's an easy cop out. Not every person that does some horrible shit should be so quickly classified as mentally ill. That's a slippery slope....every person that does something horrendous that you can't comprehend can then be classified as mentally ill and are deserving of some kind of sympathy. Every torturer, rapist, human-trafficker is "mentally ill". And the link between fucked up cultural attitudes(toxic masculinity, for example) and personality disorders needs to be highlighted/investigated. Why these mass shooters tend to be men with certain cultural attitudes needs to be a major focus. Why men are more likely to be emotionally immature/stunted with very inflexible mental frameworks for processing/expressing emotion....why that has cultural roots that manifest some really fucked up personality traits. How men are probably more likely to internalize abuse because part of being successful as a "man" is being able to "take it" and "give it back"...and abused person with that limited mental/emotional framework is likely to become a psycho themselves.

Well without taking the conversation outside my comfort zone/area of expertise, any such laws need to address the specific types of people most likely to commit crimes and either get them the mental treatment they need, keep them from having access to firearms if that can be done without infringing on the rights of others, or separate those assholes from the rest of society.

[Gypsy-Vanner]

A distinction does have to be made but I think such a distinction does not carry much relevance in regards to mass shooters. The stuff I've read especially after the Valentines Day mass shooting that occurred at NIU which is a 5 minute walk from my house (I'll be honest and say that I was terrified for a long time after that and read everything I could get my hands onto and even considered getting the fuck outta of that town) seems to indicate that some experts believe that most mass shooters are mentally fit and did not display any symptoms of disorders or mental illness. Obviously there are some notable exceptions to this but I think they are emphasizing more cultural and environmental factors than anything else?

Honestly, I just hope we get our heads out of our asses and pinpoint the reasons these keep happening and then do something about.

[Cassius Clay]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/mass-sh ... l-illness/

[Dr_Liszt]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/mass-sh ... l-illness/

I didn't want to write this, but I don't care:

Obviously it's about the patriarchy and white supremacy entitlement but they won't tackle those issues because our system is patriarchal and white supremacist so it's easier to put the label on mental illness. But the moment a Muslim does it or if it attacks the system in anyway then it's called terrorism.

It's basically that. Even Marilyn Manson said it on Bowling for Columbine, pointing at consumerist culture. The problem is that there's a multifactoral process going on that is creating people who want to do this, and no matter how many gun control laws you have, you'd still have the system creating people like this.

[Cassius Clay]

I like the idea of keeping guns from people with a history of violence. But defining what a history of violence means is a problem. Like, what about people that make violent threats online (or have violent political fantasies) but have no real-life history. We have to seriously start profiling these types of people and keeping guns from them....and that takes a serious/honest conversation about what causes this.

[Cassius Clay]

Well, from what I've been hearing, there needs to be a serious distinction made between personality disorders and mental illness. Mental illness is typically the classic scapegoat in these conversations(unless the person is Muslim). So, mentality ill people are being thrown under the bus to protect a cultural sickness(when in reality mentality ill people are far more likely to be harmed/harm themselves than harm others). It's an easy cop out. Not every person that does some horrible shit should be so quickly classified as mentally ill. That's a slippery slope....every person that does something horrendous that you can't comprehend can then be classified as mentally ill and are deserving of some kind of sympathy. Every torturer, rapist, human-trafficker is "mentally ill". And the link between fucked up cultural attitudes(toxic masculinity, for example) and personality disorders needs to be highlighted/investigated. Why these mass shooters tend to be men with certain cultural attitudes needs to be a major focus. Why men are more likely to be emotionally immature/stunted with very inflexible mental frameworks for processing/expressing emotion....why that has cultural roots that manifest some really fucked up personality traits. How men are probably more likely to internalize abuse because part of being successful as a "man" is being able to "take it" and "give it back"...and abused person with that limited mental/emotional framework is likely to become a psycho themselves.

Well without taking the conversation outside my comfort zone/area of expertise, any such laws need to address the specific types of people most likely to commit crimes and either get them the mental treatment they need, keep them from having access to firearms if that can be done without infringing on the rights of others, or separate those assholes from the rest of society.

Ideally, I tend to agree with this.

[Dr_Liszt]

I like the idea of keeping guns from people with a history of violence. But defining what a history of violence means is a problem. Like, what about people that make violent threats online (or have violent political fantasies) but have no real-life history. We have to seriously start profiling these types of people and keeping guns from them....and that takes a serious/honest conversation about what causes this.

Have you seen Adam Lanza's rant about Travis the Chimp (I have no idea how I remembered that chimp's name)? It really gives you an insight on how these people rationalize society. And as you say, many school shooters don't have a history of violence, which makes it all too damn difficult.

I still say Manson is right. Consumerism culture + media instant stardom that will finally give these people what they feel are entitled to.

[Cassius Clay]

No I didn't. Was that in a manifesto? The only manifesto I've read is the one from the self-described "supreme gentleman"(whatever his fucking name is). And that one was read to me.

I did see something recently about this Oregon shooter talking about going from nobody to being famous.

[Dr_Liszt]

No. That's the one from L.A who was the supreme gentleman. Adam Lanza was the one that got into the elementary school.

Warning: Might be disturbing. Nothing graphic but the way he talks and rationalize the chimp's behaviour, obviously talks about himself.

[Anakin McFly]

From one of the articles linked:

"The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were Christian. If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no or didn't answer, they were shot in the legs," a witness said in a text message to the Roseburg Beacon News, according to its publisher."

and from the shooter's blog:

“On an interesting note," the blog continues ominously, “I have noticed that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are…A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight."

Mental illness, narcissism, white supremacy etc exist all over the world and don't result in anywhere near the same levels of shootings; but the widespread global fame given to shooters might be a more exclusively American thing, as is the rabid gun culture.

I don't like the idea of profiling if it would involving targeting the types of people who are more likely to go on shootings, because they're disproportionality quiet, socially awkward loners, and not all of them are future mass murderers; being labeled as potentially such would probably just reinforce the idea that society is against them and might end up being a self fulfilling prophecy. But if it's done with the purpose of getting them help and ensuring they're doing ok, rather than treating them as a freakish threats, then yes.

And srsly, just make guns illegal already. I was a quiet, socially awkward loner who as an angry and frustrated teenager fantasised about school shootings with a likewise disturbed friend. But we had no access to guns, so that never became more than a misanthropic fantasy, and eventually we grew up.