Is anybody surprised...

[CashRules]

...that Belicheat has cheated his way to another Super Bowl?

[sikax]

Nnnnnnnnope.

[CashRules]

I can't understand the environment of acceptance for this kind of behavior in the most popular sport in the country. This should be even more embarrassing for the NFL than the Black Sox scandal is the MLB for the simple fact that the Black Sox scandal was a one series event while Belicheat has been doing this his entire career. I doubt he's ever won a game in which there wasn't intentional cheating, it just gets more notice when it's the playoffs. But there's never any serious talk of lifetime bans against Belicheat and Brady.

[Gendo]

I'm confused about a couple different things here...

First off, why in the world does each team use their own balls? I never knew this before today. That just seems like a really weird thing. Shouldn't both teams be using the exact same balls?

Also, what is with everyone jumping to conclusions on this? There's an ongoing investigation; who knows how it will turn out. At the moment, there's been no evidence that I've read about to suggest that Belichick had anything to do with this. I mean, it would just be an oddly stupid thing to do. He knows the balls are re-tested after the game, right? So I don't see how anyone would do that while thinking they could get away with it. Also, I can't imagine that he thought it was needed to beat the Colts. Why would THIS be the game where he did it. Why not vs the Ravens when it was actually a hard game to win? It seriously seems more likely to me that he had nothing to do with this, and that's assuming that the investigation shows that something was done in the first place. I don't know how ball security before the game works, but it would be just as believable that some Colts fan did it to try and get the Patriots in trouble. Because once again, how would Belichick think that doing this would actually be helpful for his team?

I mean, does anyone really think that the Colts would have won if the Patriots had been using different balls?

[sikax]

Also, what is with everyone jumping to conclusions on this? There's an ongoing investigation; who knows how it will turn out.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... nship-game

First off, why in the world does each team use their own balls? I never knew this before today. That just seems like a really weird thing. Shouldn't both teams be using the exact same balls?

Each team provides balls for the game. The home team provides a few more than the visiting team, I believe. It's my understanding that these are used at random and mixed together. So let's say that 26 balls are used and the Pats know that 11 of them are underinflated (to their advantage), then they have drastically altered the course of the game. Who knows if Indy would have won in a fair game. Cheating is fucking cheating.

[sikax]

Be that as it may, the rule book states that the ultimate acceptability of the balls within the regulations is up to the referee. So if the balls were allowed on the field, TECHNICALLY it's his fault. But, knowing Belichick, the ref was paid off to "not notice".

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... 3_Ball.pdf

[Gendo]

Also, what is with everyone jumping to conclusions on this? There's an ongoing investigation; who knows how it will turn out.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... nship-game

I saw that video earlier today... doesn't contradict anything I said. From the video itself: "I think we need to wait to see what conclusions come out of the investigation. This is what I would call the early findings... that jumping a little bit ahead. They haven't discovered who altered the footballs, if they were altered, or if they were properly inspected before the game."

Basically, the guy in that video is saying the same thing I was.

First off, why in the world does each team use their own balls? I never knew this before today. That just seems like a really weird thing. Shouldn't both teams be using the exact same balls?

Each team provides balls for the game. The home team provides a few more than the visiting team, I believe. It's my understanding that these are used at random and mixed together. So let's say that 26 balls are used and the Pats know that 11 of them are underinflated (to their advantage), then they have drastically altered the course of the game. Who knows if Indy would have won in a fair game. Cheating is fucking cheating.

From what I read, each team provides the balls that their team uses when on offense. And that just seems like such a weird rule to me. Why wouldn't the league require that all teams use the same balls?

*Edit* Actually I read it on that same link you posted:

"Under NFL rules, each team provides balls each game for use when its offense is on the field."

[Gendo]

If it does get proven that Bill actually did this, then Pats fan or not, I'll be wishing there were a harsher punishment than whatever they give him.

[Gendo]

Finally, as for who would have won otherwise... The Colts scored 7 points, using their own footballs. The Patriots lowest-scoring game of the year was 14, not counting the 9 points when Brady wasn't playing. With over 30 points in most games. So unless it turns out that they were cheating in ALL the games (which would make more sense than if they were cheating in just this one, because again, of all the games they had, this wouldn't be the one to risk cheating in); then there's no reason to think that the outcome would have been any different at all.

[CashRules]

Belichick should have already been banned for life long ago. He's the head coach so he's responsible and this is far from his first run-in with the rule book.

No, there's little chance that the underinflated balls changed the eventual winner. Instead of winning by 38 points, they might have won by 34. But when you catch somebody doing something wrong, it's very unlikely they got caught the first time they did that wrong thing. So there is a very good possibility that the Patriots have used this tactic to win a few close games.

[Gendo]

But when you catch somebody doing something wrong, it's very unlikely they got caught the first time they did that wrong thing. So there is a very good possibility that the Patriots have used this tactic to win a few close games.

This is a good point. But there's still one thing I'm really not understanding here... is it common practice to check the balls both before and after the game? (Actually I think in this case they were checked during halftime or something). If so, then

1) How would he have gotten away with it in other games? The only thing I can think of is actually bribing a ref. And if you're going to bribe a ref and get way with it, then you could get a lot more advantage than playing with altered footballs.

2) If this is the first time, then again why would he have expected to get away with it? I just don't understand what possible thought process would lead to the idea that he could get away with it. And if he knows he can't get away with it, why the heck would he do it? It just doesn't make sense.

[CashRules]

To make sure every rule is followed in every NFL game would probably require a full-time staff of 50-60 people who spend their entire careers doing nothing but inspecting equipment and making reports. That's a little better than MLB which would probably need several hundred people but no league is going to enforce to that degree. Just like with any other "quality-control" job, you inspect a few expecting that if there is a problem you'll catch it soon enough. In something like a sport, where people's lives aren't normally on the line, "soon-enough" is more open to interpretation than it would be in quality control for a food processing plant.

[Gendo]

Fair enough, thanks.

[BruceSmith78]

When Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck are no longer Patriots, the Cowboys will once again be my most hated team.

[CashRules]

And today we learned that neither Brady nor Belicheat knew anything about it. Yeah, I'm convinced.