Undocumented immigrants

[Anakin McFly]

What are the arguments in favour of them staying in the US?

I know in some cases it's not their fault - they may have been provided false documentation, or lacked the knowledge to apply for all the things they needed to be legal residents, or were brought in as children, and so on, so I'm talking about cases where they are adults fully aware that they are breaking the law.

I understand that many of them are fleeing desperate situations where their lives may be at stake, but shouldn't this instead be a push for easier access to asylum for such people?

Or is it a matter of - people who are willing to risk so much just to enter and live in the US should be treated with compassion rather than kicked out? I can get that, but if the laws are relaxed to the point that that risk is no longer there, what reason would anybody - including those who aren't in desperate circumstances - have to spend years applying for a Green Card or citizenship if anyone could get in right now and achieve the same status by merely overstaying a visa or climbing a wall?

Mostly I don't like the idea of there being laws that people break and that's okay. Either enforce them or drop the laws altogether, otherwise what's the point?

[Derived Absurdity]

It makes racists mad.

[aels]

What DA said but also undocumented immigrants make up a big proportion of the workforce: http://uk.businessinsider.com/cost-depo ... ?r=US&IR=T

To my knowledge, they also pay a lot into society and don't take out: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... es/499604/

More stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_ ... n_overview

This is all v. lazily written and sourced by me because I'm tired. But yeah, there are economic justifications as well as moral ones. You're also splitting up families in a lot of cases and potentially sending people back to countries and situations that are unsafe. Crucially, anything that the Daily Mail is against, one must be in favour of

[Derived Absurdity]

Crucially, anything that the Daily Mail is against, one must be in favour of

If one goes through life following no other principle than that, one will have lived well.

[aels]

[Derived Absurdity]

Lol, I remember that. That's great.

[Anakin McFly]

@DA - lol yes good point

@aels - Thanks! But in that case, why even make it illegal? (Or why make it so hard for people to legally immigrate, for that matter?) It becomes pointless if you can choose between immigrating the hard but legal way or immigrating the easy but illegal way. What reasons would people have to do it legally, other than the warm fuzzy feeling of a clear conscience? (I'd have considered having proper documentation would be one huge benefit, but there's a push to get undocumented immigrants documented, so that's no longer a factor either.)

[Monk]

@DA - lol yes good point

@aels - Thanks! But in that case, why even make it illegal? (Or why make it so hard for people to legally immigrate, for that matter?) It becomes pointless if you can choose between immigrating the hard but legal way or immigrating the easy but illegal way. What reasons would people have to do it legally, other than the warm fuzzy feeling of a clear conscience? (I'd have considered having proper documentation would be one huge benefit, but there's a push to get undocumented immigrants documented, so that's no longer a factor either.)

Having legal status would be better in that you have better work opportunities, particularly those that do background checks, as well as access to more public benefits (e.g. social security, retirement accounts, etc).

Most illegal immigrants actually come here legally with a work or vacation visa, but then remain after the visa has expired. Those who come here illegally often do so through extraordinary measures that are dangerous. Many people die or are assaulted when trying to cross the US-Mexican border, for example.

[Islandmur]

What are the arguments in favour of them staying in the US?

I know in some cases it's not their fault - they may have been provided false documentation, or lacked the knowledge to apply for all the things they needed to be legal residents, or were brought in as children, and so on, so I'm talking about cases where they are adults fully aware that they are breaking the law.

I understand that many of them are fleeing desperate situations where their lives may be at stake, but shouldn't this instead be a push for easier access to asylum for such people?

Or is it a matter of - people who are willing to risk so much just to enter and live in the US should be treated with compassion rather than kicked out? I can get that, but if the laws are relaxed to the point that that risk is no longer there, what reason would anybody - including those who aren't in desperate circumstances - have to spend years applying for a Green Card or citizenship if anyone could get in right now and achieve the same status by merely overstaying a visa or climbing a wall?

Mostly I don't like the idea of there being laws that people break and that's okay. Either enforce them or drop the laws altogether, otherwise what's the point?

My take on it is this.

Crossing illegally is wrong... if you are caught within the first year I'm all for sending people back (well I don't live in the US but you get my drift) but after a year, a person that's working, is productive has a family, etc... after screening should be granted their status. Making established illegals - legal will just be better economically no? paying taxes and the likes? I just find it so weird that people that have been there for 10 years (with full knowledge by the government) are being deported or haven't been granted a legal status... that's crazy. After 5 years of cohabitation aren't you in a communal marriage or some such?

[the_dork_lord]

They're people. They want to live here.

Do we really need to justify basic human rights?

[Anakin McFly]

No; the question is why there's even a need to differentiate between legal and illegal immigration in that case.

[OpiateOfTheMasses]

I think they should make the process for qualifying for legal entry easier rather than rewarding people for breaking the law and the criminals who profit from trafficking them.

As for the people already in the country there should be a one-time amnesty where people can declare themselves and go through the process of becoming legal citizens - it wouldn't be an automatic guarantee, anyone who is found to be wanted for criminal offences (or the like) may fail and be removed, but that would be their one chance to come forward and have an "easy" chance to become a legitimate citizen - if they're discovered after the deadline passes they would be removed from the country.

My two cents anyway.