Twin Peaks Season 3: :-) ALL

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 15, 2017 8:18 pm

Holy shit Twin Peaks is returning Sunday night, starting a season of 18 brand new episodes all directed by David Lynch! Details are pretty sparse about the new season even now, but apparently it will be different, broader in scope (Even being set in locations other than Twin Peaks), and Lynch has said that Fire Walk With Me will be important to understanding this new season. To put things in perspective, I was only six months old when FWWM premiered here in the United States.

Drink coffee and get hyped. Don't eat pie though because that's nasty.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 15, 2017 8:57 pm

You beat me to making this thread by, like, 5 minutes.

I am psyched. Like I haven't been about anything in a long time.

I was 9 months old when it aired.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 15, 2017 10:09 pm

I almost don't believe that it's happening again, it's kind of hard to comprehend the fact. We know so little about it going in, but that makes it exciting especially with Lynch directing every episode and even Mark Frost being back on board as a writer.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 15, 2017 10:23 pm

I'm ecstatic. There are rumors that the season will be brutal based on accounts of people who've seen filming unfold, and that makes me kind of terrified to see what Lynch does in Twin Peaks. With him directing all episodes (and coming back after so long!), we seriously don't know what to expect.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 15, 2017 10:40 pm

I know people like Kyle Macnobodyactuallyknowshowtospellthis have been saying this new season is like nothing that's been on TV before. Normally I think that's just some marketing spin, but with Lynch I think and hope it might actually be true.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue May 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Showtime did a little mini documentary about the show, and it's a fun way to spend 15 minutes.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... CHtSvgoHxE[/youtube]

A Facebook friend of mine shot some of the fan footage used in the second video, so that's cool.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed May 17, 2017 10:19 pm

Thanks for sharing. I'll check it out later.

I watched this video essay series on Twin Peaks as a kind of cool refresher. Some 28 episodes about 6-10 minutes each spanning every bit of output related to Twin Peaks. Worth it if it's been a while since you've seen the show.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:38 am

So I was chilling in my house last night not wearing any pants and at like 1 am a strange man came to my house, said "hello, nice to see you again", and asked for coffee. He drank it and then left.

I think it was an advertisement for this new season.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:27 am

Sounds legit. (Also, if that's a reference to something, I'm afraid I don't know what that something is...)

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Thu May 18, 2017 11:16 pm

It was a reference to my house, at about 1 am last night.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sat May 20, 2017 2:07 pm

Man, we're so close now!

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sun May 21, 2017 12:09 am

Early reports on the episodes from a special screening somewhere seem to be good, I'm very excited.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 1:53 am

Love that my cable box died during the fucking premiere. DX

Time to watch on Showtime's website I guess.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 3:17 am

These first two episodes were probably the most radical thing made for American television in the 21st century.

I suspect people are going to fucking hate it because of that though, since they resemble Fire Walk With Me/Lost Highway/INLAND EMPIRE more than seasons 1 and 2. Personally I really liked it.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 3:26 am

Also if you have Showtime you can watch episodes 3 and 4 on their website already. I need to recover a bit first before I dive back into Lynch's American neo-nightmare.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 6:37 am

After watching episodes 3 and 4 I am extremely fucking confused about why, exactly, there are three distinct versions of Dale Cooper running around.

This is an extremely good season.

EDIT: Shoutout to the surprisingly saddest moment of the night EPISODE 3 & 4 MEGASPOILER - After finally escaping the Black Lodge, the amnesiac and then some Cooper finds the key to his old room at the Great Northern in his pocket and doesn't have any idea what it is.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:06 am

maz89 watch the episodes already and then talk about them with me you piece of shit.

God damn what does a guy have to do around here to get water cooler talk?

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:14 am

Note that I have not seen the episode yet nor will I be able to do so until quite a while (those irritating time zone issues when you live on the other side of the pond) so I have not read any of the comments you've made since the show premiered.

Except the title, which is fortunately is not too spoiler-y.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:18 am

Then who am I supposed to talk about this with?

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:33 am

Me. In about 10 hours.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:10 pm

F-ck. I saw it. The first two episodes. I won't lie. I cried tears of happiness when the episode ended at the Bang Bang Bar with 'Shadow'. It's been a few minutes since then. Right now, I just have a huge, fucking grin on my face.

I loved it. I'm not sure what happened exactly and I don't know what's in store. I just know that I loved experiencing this Lynchian magic again. I love how these two episodes made me feel. I loved how Lynch subverted expectations throughout, refusing to cave the way he had to 25 years ago. I loved the eerie black-and-white opening in which the Giant imparts some code to Cooper that the latter seems to understand. I loved how Lynch parts with the traditions of the first two seasons and creates something brand new from the same cloth. For example, how he frames Dr Jacoby in cold, distant long shots with the dialogue barely being decipherable in the scene in which he receives the delivery of a whole lot of shovels. Or how his check-in with Ben and Jerry Horne feels perfunctory, and as soon as the old trademark Twin Peaks humor begins to rear its head and the conversation actually seems to be going somewhere, he abruptly cuts away, as if to say we are done with these guys.

Lucy's reading of "it could make a difference" was wonderfully eerie, in a knowing kind of way. In other sequences, the dialogue was stilted and contrived punctuated by bizarre pauses and emphasized facial expressions - trademark TP. Especially during that glass box sequence ("You're a bad girl, Tracey", "Do you want to sit down?" "Cozy"). (The way the sofa is propped up on a stage reminded me of the human rabbits watching TV, sitting on their sofa, from Inland Empire.) Holy hell, what the fuck was that glass box sequence? I love how Tracey was a stand-in for a curious audience: she brings two cups of coffee and wants to enter but is refused. When she comes the next night, she finally enters through some stroke of luck. She asks all the right questions and barely receives any answers. Finally, bored by nothing happening in the box, she decides it's a good time to fuck (all those casual fans who tuned in probably did the same lol). I'm just amazed Lynch teased us with the empty box imagery for 30 minutes before finally unleashing pure hell. Also, you never have sex on a Lynch show. Never. Just say no.

Was that the smoke monster from the island which butchers them? I swear... even the magical box notion reminded me of Lost lol.

Okay, need to breathe for a bit. Add more stuff later.

You haven't given me anything to chew on. And no, I don't have Showtime so I'll have to wait until next week to see episodes 3 and 4. NO SPOILERS.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:56 pm

Other things I liked:

- The drawn-out humor with the cops and Marjorie, that obese, forgetful middle aged woman with the dog who had the keys to Ruth's apartment all along. Such kinds of bizarre, hilarious deviations on a show with decapitated heads, torn off limbs, and vicious brutality can only coexist here.

- That repeated 'eye' symbolism. Both women have one of their eyes blown off. The glass box has an 'eye' that stares out at the city (reminiscent of HAL's eye, at one point). In the Black Lodge, the new mythical, electrical creature that we are introduced to - the evolution of the "arm" - is spherical... sort of. Cooper's doppelganger pulls out an ace that has its circular image on it, showing to to Darya.

- Log Lady's reappearance, her weeping phone call to Hawk about finding something missing through Special Agent Dale Cooper, and a brief glimpse of Lucy and Andy's antics. There was also a promise of coffee and pie. This whole sequence was probably the biggest throwback to the older version of the show. It was awesome.

- "But the Morgans are coming for dinner!"

- The new characters are promising. Deception, lies, and betrayals in a murder mystery surrounding another seemingly normal suburban family; Twin Peaks returning, in its own way, to what it has always been about. Hastings, Phyllis, George, and an as yet un-introduced Betty (will it be Naomi Watts borrowing her name from MD?). Phyllis' on-screen murder pretty much paints the killer as Cooper's doppelganger/the replacement evil spirit (I really miss Frank Silva), but there is obviously more here than meets the eyes, as Hastings and Betty remain key topics for the doppelganger ("she knows what he knows").

- Man, that was an eerily empty police station. And WTF was that dark faced spirit lurking in a nearby cell?

- A random sequence that did not make any sense at all (from a traditional story perspective lol): A Mr Todd telling a boy named Roger to "never let someone like him in your life". The puzzle gets increasingly complex.

- And then an aged Laura appears, and it is magical. "...sometimes my arm bend back." Oh Laura. Never change.

- Of course, then she does something she's never done before: removing her face to show a white glowing alien nothingness underneath. Then another dose of normal, when she whispers something into Cooper's ears. And then again madness, as she shrieks and is pulled away by an invisible force. It's an amalgamation of the old and the new.

- That shot of Leland asking Cooper to find Laura was heart-breaking and sad. As were the shots of Grace Zabriskie drinking wine, alone in her house, watching a gruesome hunting scene from Animal Planet. I need there to be more of her.

- Okay, we have to talk about the "evolution of the arm". That thing looks like it's come out of some eerie jap fantasy game. Or from Eraserhead. Frankly, it's terrifying. It knows too much and makes weird blowing sounds, besides crackling with electricity. Not so sure about this element as it's new and unusual, but it's memorable imagery for the Black Lodge. I just hope it doesn't make the show feel like a parody of itself...

- Finally, the Bang Bang Bar. Loved 'Shadow' playing in the background. James has aged, man. I didn't even recognize Shelly. But the little bit of conversation we hear from her is alarming. According to her, her daughter, Becky, is dating the wrong guy and she senses there is something wrong with her. Shelly's friend dismisses it, saying "it's her life". Is the cycle repeating itself? Wonder who's the father. Wonder where the hell Billy, Donna or Audrey are.

Can't wait to pick this up next week.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:05 pm

So who's pulled a disappearing act now?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:28 pm

I had to go to sleep and just now woke back up. :(

You have a lot of good thoughts, I'll dig into them later.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:10 am

Some of this I can't address until you watch Episodes 3 and 4. Frankly you should just pirate them tbh. I'm sure they're on the piracy websites now.

"But Raxivace, that's illegal and doesn't allow me to follow the values of capitalist society! That would be an act of subversion!"

Oh yeah? Well fuck the police and the squad cars they rode in on.

maz89 wrote:You haven't given me anything to chew on.

Look I have fun talking with you and all but I just don't swing that way. I'm sorry if our chats have mislead you into thinking this is something other than it is. There are a ton of fish in the sea, I'm sure you can find someone to give you something to chew.

Holy hell, what the fuck was that glass box sequence?

It definitely resembled a television to me. FWWM began with Leland destroying a TV. Season 3 has a TV killing people. There's clearly something being said here.

I see that this glass box sequence also reminded you of the shot of HAL's "eye" in 2001. Not really sure what to make of this myself, or who the spooky ghosts that killed the guy and hot gal is. I've seen speculation about this, but I can't remember if that speculation is based on info from episode 2 or episode 3.

The drawn-out humor with the cops and Marjorie, that obese, forgetful middle aged woman with the dog who had the keys to Ruth's apartment all along. Such kinds of bizarre, hilarious deviations on a show with decapitated heads, torn off limbs, and vicious brutality can only coexist here.

Haha yeah. It reminded me a lot of the season 2 opening with Cooper being shot and the old man from The Searchers.

Log Lady's reappearance, her weeping phone call to Hawk about finding something missing through Special Agent Dale Cooper, and a brief glimpse of Lucy and Andy's antics. There was also a promise of coffee and pie. This whole sequence was probably the biggest throwback to the older version of the show. It was awesome.

This whole scene with Hawk seems to be a callback to a previously abandoned bit of foreshadowing from season 2. Cooper says "Hawk, if I ever get lost, I hope you're the man they send to find me".

Since we know Cooper was named after famous missing real life person D.B. Cooper, I'm sure some variation of this current plotline was always the plan.

Man, that was an eerily empty police station. And WTF was that dark faced spirit lurking in a nearby cell?

Instantly made me think of the spooky homeless woman from Mulholland Dr. Not sure if its meant to be literally be the same entity or not.

Might be a good time to remember that Mulholland Dr. was originally conceived as being about Audrey Horne.

That thing looks like it's come out of some eerie jap fantasy game.

Okay I'm leaving this unspoiled to make a point. I know you didn't mean anything offensive by this but "Jap" is considered a slur in parts of the world.

Anyways that was a pretty crazy sequence and kind of a funny "fuck you"to Michael J. Anderson for being a crazy racist guy. It's a real shame he's an insane asshole now and couldn't come back, but I like this crazy tree now.

I didn't even recognize Shelly.

I completely missed her the first time there. Madchen Amick looks super good though now, holy crap. Woman has barely aged a day.

Most of the thoughts I do have about the show right now are influenced by episodes 3 and 4, both of which have some really great and bizarre Lynch ass moments. Please look forward to them. Or just pirate them.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:13 am

Me after all four episodes:

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue May 23, 2017 7:22 am

Raxivace wrote:Some of this I can't address until you watch Episodes 3 and 4. Frankly you should just pirate them tbh. I'm sure they're on the piracy websites now... Most of the thoughts I do have about the show right now are influenced by episodes 3 and 4, both of which have some really great and bizarre Lynch ass moments. Please look forward to them. Or just pirate them.

They weren't on there last I checked. Did you say police?

Raxivace wrote:
maz89 wrote:You haven't given me anything to chew on.
Look I have fun talking with you and all but I just don't swing that way. I'm sorry if our chats have mislead you into thinking this is something other than it is. There are a ton of fish in the sea, I'm sure you can find someone to give you something to chew.

That's not what I... fair enough.

Raxivace wrote:
Holy hell, what the fuck was that glass box sequence?
It definitely resembled a television to me. FWWM began with Leland destroying a TV. Season 3 has a TV killing people. There's clearly something being said here.

I see that this glass box sequence also reminded you of the shot of HAL's "eye" in 2001. Not really sure what to make of this myself, or who the spooky ghosts that killed the guy and hot gal is. I've seen speculation about this, but I can't remember if that speculation is based on info from episode 2 or episode 3.

I believe you're right actually - as one reviewer pointed out, the consumption of film/TV plays a role here as much as it did in Lynch's two previous works. First with the glass box, then with the glass screen in the police station where Hastings is being interrogated, and then in our check-in with Sarah Palmer, who is literally watching animal behavior on a television. In MD and IE, it was really about the artificiality of the medium, of its ability to keep sweep us off our feet and make us forget that it's a facade, with the implications also being on the people watching those movies. While the TV is linked to murderous behavior here, I recall in Inland Empire that the 'facade' was developed a bit more to suggest some kind of redemptive power as well, but I can't remember the details. Will need to investigate.

I'm skipping the spoiler tag for episodes 1 and 2 since we've both seen them.

This whole scene with Hawk seems to be a callback to a previously abandoned bit of foreshadowing from season 2. Cooper says "Hawk, if I ever get lost, I hope you're the man they send to find me".

Wow, I totally forgot about this.

Man, that was an eerily empty police station. And WTF was that dark faced spirit lurking in a nearby cell?
Instantly made me think of the spooky homeless woman from Mulholland Dr. Not sure if its meant to be literally be the same entity or not.

Might be a good time to remember that Mulholland Dr. was originally conceived as being about Audrey Horne.

Didn't know this! For real? Damn.

Okay I'm leaving this unspoiled to make a point. I know you didn't mean anything offensive by this but "Jap" is considered a slur in parts of the world.

But it's just a short form of... ah, okay. I didn't know.

Anyways that was a pretty crazy sequence and kind of a funny "fuck you"to Michael J. Anderson for being a crazy racist guy. It's a real shame he's an insane asshole now and couldn't come back, but I like this crazy tree now.

I just googled what happened. Didn't see racism, but read about a fall-out due to some monetary grievance. And the disturbing things he's said about Lynch...

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue May 23, 2017 8:27 am

They weren't on there last I checked.

Huh, looks like some of the big sites are down now anyways. :( Well it will be on TV in a week anyways.

Did you say police?

They're known for their strong adherence to IP law. They must be stopped.

That's not what I... fair enough.

lmao sorry, I just can't resist bad puns and double entendre.

Didn't know this! For real? Damn.

Yup. Supposedly Lost Highway is also set in the Twin Peaks universe, though that information never did much to inform me about either.

To me these kind of Tarantinian direct callbacks to different works don't exactly seem like something Lynch would typically go for, though part of me hopes one of the Dune worms shows up. Ep 3 and 4 thematic spoilers: Episodes 3 and 4 seem to introduce this idea of nostalgia being painful and uncomfortable, so perhaps if Lynch is going to say something ouevre as a whole it will be more along these lines.

I recall in Inland Empire that the 'facade' was developed a bit more to suggest some kind of redemptive power as well, but I can't remember the details.

I couldn't make much sense of Inland Empire at all. Movie just didn't click with me and its the only Lynch I don't like- I'll have to take your word on this interpretation.

Season 3 resembling Inland Empire so much but majorly working for me is interesting though. Perhaps a rewatch of the film will change my opinion, though that 3 hour runtime plus the movie's early digital look is a bit of a demotivator.

But it's just a short form of... ah, okay. I didn't know.

It's alright, everyone makes mistakes. I know I have before.

Wikipedia has an article on the subject that might be informative- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap.

I just googled what happened. Didn't see racism, but read about a fall-out due to some monetary grievance. And the disturbing things he's said about Lynch...

He's made comments about "Hollywood Jews" keeping him down and such. "Anti-semitic" would have been a more accurate word for me to use.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue May 23, 2017 10:32 am

Raxivace wrote:Huh, looks like some of the big sites are down now anyways. :( Well it will be on TV in a week anyways.

To be honest, I'd rather watch it next week anyway. I need to pace myself or else I'll just get lost and confused in the madness. I need to digest these two episodes first.

They're known for their strong adherence to IP law. They must be stopped.

Lol. Fortunately, I don't have to put up with that. Third world... benefits?

That's not what I... fair enough.
lmao sorry, I just can't resist bad puns and double entendre.

I figured as much.

I recall in Inland Empire that the 'facade' was developed a bit more to suggest some kind of redemptive power as well, but I can't remember the details.
I couldn't make much sense of Inland Empire at all. Movie just didn't click with me and its the only Lynch I don't like- I'll have to take your word on this interpretation.

I think many have described IE as being Lynch's answer to anyone who thought they had "figured out" MD. I've only seen it once myself and the experience was hypnotic and brilliant and maddening and disorienting, all at once. I've discussed it numerous times since, often with people who've taken up the daunting task of getting lost in Lynch's visuals numerous times and coming out unscathed and with a greater appreciation of his themes. A rewatch is certainly in order for the both of us; I don't mind the digital look as much as I do that 3-hour runtime. Also, I love Laura Dern and I can't wait for her (and Watts) to show up in TP.

I also like that TP resembles IE so much in visual style, tone and direction. Part of the reason why it works so well is because we're familiar with Twin Peaks (or, at least, with what it used to be) so the IE style doesn't make us feel completely untethered as it did in Inland Empire, where we have no start and are left to figure things out on our own from scratch.

Wikipedia has an article on the subject that might be informative- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap.

Interesting. I will stop using it because it seems to matter to a few Japanese minorities so much and because I am considerate like that... although I do kinda wish people would stop taking offense over abbreviated words. I mean, one can't even pick a word without worrying about which group of people might find it offensive.

I just googled what happened. Didn't see racism, but read about a fall-out due to some monetary grievance. And the disturbing things he's said about Lynch...
He's made comments about "Hollywood Jews" keeping him down and such. "Anti-semitic" would have been a more accurate word for me to use.

Woah, I didn't read that part. The man clearly needs help. What a saddening direction his life went in.

BTW, TP Season 3 ends on September 3rd. The first batch of 8 episodes end on June 25th according to wiki. I assume there will be a one week break. I hate breaks.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:03 pm

maz89 wrote:To be honest, I'd rather watch it next week anyway. I need to pace myself or else I'll just get lost and confused in the madness. I need to digest these two episodes first.

I hear ya there. Lynch certainly knows how to cram a lot into these episodes.

Lol. Fortunately, I don't have to put up with that. Third world... benefits?

Every place has their own benefits and drawbacks, I suppose.

Also, I love Laura Dern and I can't wait for her (and Watts) to show up in TP.

I've loved Jurassic Park since I was young (And love it even more now), so I've always had a soft spot for Dern and have enjoyed seeing her throughout Lynch's career. I too look forward to her popping up again in Twin Peaks.

Watts is great too, of course. Last thing I saw her in was...Birdman, apparently. I somehow don't remember her at all in there.

I think many have described IE as being Lynch's answer to anyone who thought they had "figured out" MD.

I think I've heard that too. It's funny because like, the actual puzzle element has never really meant that much to me in MD. The movie works as well it does I think because everything else in there is also top notch.

It's why I react much more negatively to a movie like Primer that's just the "puzzle" and little else. Solving that feels like solving a quadratic equation where the answer is "there's no real solution". "Solving" MD at least helps me understand the characters emotions and motivation, the different themes, the way they're expressed etc. Perhaps comparing Lynch at the height of his powers to Carruth's first film is a bit unfair, especially since I do think Upstream Color is much better, even if still flawed.

I also like that TP resembles IE so much in visual style, tone and direction. Part of the reason why it works so well is because we're familiar with Twin Peaks (or, at least, with what it used to be) so the IE style doesn't make us feel completely untethered as it did in Inland Empire, where we have no start and are left to figure things out on our own from scratch.

Yeah, the TP connections give it just enough of a throughline, at least for me. My poor mother barely lasted half an hour through the episode lol, though she wasn't a huge fan of the original show either.

although I do kinda wish people would stop taking offense over abbreviated words. I mean, one can't even pick a word without worrying about which group of people might find it offensive.

I'm going to break my usual persona and get more real than I usually like to be for a moment.

To some extent I understand your frustration, particularly when you personally don't actually mean anyone any harm or ill will. Words are powerful things though, and as much as a good poem or a kind compliment may lift our spirits or make us happy, words equally have the ability to conjure hatred and negative memories. Entire histories in blinks of the eye, both in the broadly socio-political sense and personal as well, flashing from a throw away comment someone else made.

I of course, cannot speak of your own experiences or difficulties in life, or how you may have faced them. I don't talk about my own personal life much, but because my little brother suffers from various severe disabilities in his brain and body, its stung me some each and every time for the last 20 years I've heard someone say "retard", even casually. Even when people aren't trying to be asses about, it can conjure negative emotions and memories in myself. Different times I've seen it used to insult people. Different times I've seen people say things like ""retards" don't deserve to live", that they "don't matter to anyone" and "should have been aborted" and so on. I've had people, not knowing what my own life is like, say some of the most absolutely vile shit to my face, and over time these experiences feel like they compound on each other. I'd imagine its the same to others with racially charged words or homophobic words or whatever else.

I don't know what the answer to this is. I've tried getting others to empathize, but that is a very exhausting, repetitive task. One I've had to do since I was a little kid, and one I'm not sure I can win in the long run, particularly here in America where our President actively mocks the disabled on live television, cuts their health benefits and so on.

Anyways sorry for making this heavy out of no where. This is stuff that does matter though, and affects people's psychologies whether we like it or not. While its frustrating to deal with, I think its important to remember why these words are considered offensive by such groups. People can't choose that they're affected by these things, and we all know I'm someone that can usually go on about stuff for a while.

This has been a bit rambly but I hope you're able to understand what I'm attempting to communicate. This is legitimately hard for me to talk about.

Woah, I didn't read that part. The man clearly needs help. What a saddening direction his life went in.

It really is. Watching old DVD features that have interviews with him, he seemed so into the project before too, talking about building his character and such. I think even the backwards talking thing was partially his idea, and that's a huge aspect of what's so cool about these Black Lodge sequences. And now he's who he is.

BTW, TP Season 3 ends on September 3rd. The first batch of 8 episodes end on June 25th according to wiki. I assume there will be a one week break. I hate breaks.

It's extra painful when these episodes flow into each other the way they do. This is a cliche line for this era but it really does feel like watching hour chunks of a movie each week.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue May 23, 2017 3:16 pm

Raxivace wrote:Watts is great too, of course. Last thing I saw her in was...Birdman, apparently. I somehow don't remember her at all in there.

You don't? She plays a successful stage actress who shares a tender kiss with another woman during a stage rehearsal. On a stage that is lit in blue, and even has a telephone perched on a bed side table. Sound familiar?

I think I've heard that too. It's funny because like, the actual puzzle element has never really meant that much to me in MD. The movie works as well it does I think because everything else in there is also top notch.
It's why I react much more negatively to a movie like Primer that's just the "puzzle" and little else. Solving that feels like solving a quadratic equation where the answer is "there's no real solution". "Solving" MD at least helps me understand the characters emotions and motivation, the different themes, the way they're expressed etc. Perhaps comparing Lynch at the height of his powers to Carruth's first film is a bit unfair, especially since I do think Upstream Color is much better, even if still flawed.

Well, yes, Lynch's puzzle in MD is powerful because of how richly it is constructed with the radical, stunning visuals enhancing the film's thematic depth.

That being said, I liked Primer enough to give it a 7 or 8 IIRC. I think the whole puzzle was kind of fascinating (and it did have a 'scientific' solution, too), but the reason it worked well enough for me is because it came across as a crushing piece on how insignificant a partnership/friendship turns out to be once the promise of absolute power comes into play, on the ugliness of human nature that rears its head and reveals relationships to be a masquerade that will inevitably crumble when there's a fight to gain god-like control of another - or the world. Even the indie feel of the film, with its drab aesthetics, seemed to work in its favor. I also really loved Upstream Color, a dark audio-visual tonal poem that finds some kind of a life-affirming ending. And that score... wow. To think it could come from the same director as Primer is quite telling of Carruth's artistic range.

Yeah, the TP connections give it just enough of a throughline, at least for me. My poor mother barely lasted half an hour through the episode lol, though she wasn't a huge fan of the original show either.

A few people were quite excited on my Facebook about TP's return but they've all gone radio-silent since it premiered. I assume they had a similar reaction as your mother.

I'm going to break my usual persona and get more real than I usually like to be for a moment.

To some extent I understand your frustration, particularly when you personally don't actually mean anyone any harm or ill will. Words are powerful things though, and as much as a good poem or a kind compliment may lift our spirits or make us happy, words equally have the ability to conjure hatred and negative memories. Entire histories in blinks of the eye, both in the broadly socio-political sense and personal as well, flashing from a throw away comment someone else made.

I of course, cannot speak of your own experiences or difficulties in life, or how you may have faced them. I don't talk about my own personal life much, but because my little brother suffers from various severe disabilities in his brain and body, its stung me some each and every time for the last 20 years I've heard someone say "retard", even casually. Even when people aren't trying to be asses about, it can conjure negative emotions and memories in myself. Different times I've seen it used to insult people. Different times I've seen people say things like ""retards" don't deserve to live", that they "don't matter to anyone" and "should have been aborted" and so on. I've had people, not knowing what my own life is like, say some of the most absolutely vile shit to my face, and over time these experiences feel like they compound on each other. I'd imagine its the same to others with racially charged words or homophobic words or whatever else.

I don't know what the answer to this is. I've tried getting others to empathize, but that is a very exhausting, repetitive task. One I've had to do since I was a little kid, and one I'm not sure I can win in the long run, particularly here in America where our President actively mocks the disabled on live television, cuts their health benefits and so on.

Anyways sorry for making this heavy out of no where. This is stuff that does matter though, and affects people's psychologies whether we like it or not. While its frustrating to deal with, I think its important to remember why these words are considered offensive by such groups. People can't choose that they're affected by these things, and we all know I'm someone that can usually go on about stuff for a while.

This has been a bit rambly but I hope you're able to understand what I'm attempting to communicate. This is legitimately hard for me to talk about.

I understand what you mean. And I can only try to understand how terribly difficult it must be for you to deal with the cruel insensitivity of some. I can't believe that people would say vile shit to your face about your brother. I can only hope that no adult has ever done this. The only solution is, really, education, and calmly, patiently helping people understand the consequences of their usage of a derogatory word, which is what you've been doing. I'm sure not everyone will care or listen but there's really no hope for such people.

Please know that while I used "Jap" freely up there (in my ignorance), I have never used 'retard' to describe someone who is mentally disabled - or any other homophobic or racist slur... That I'm aware of, as a non-native English speaker. And that's my frustration, really, because I know I'm bound to use a word that might offend someone despite my best intentions, and I wish people would just meet half-way and evaluate the context in which the word is being used (where that word, by itself, is not derogatory). What helps immensely, though, is when people like you politely enlighten, instead of jump to conclusions about how the problematic word is being used with malicious intentions.

Sometimes, I wish there was a way to 'reclaim' some of these words and render them harmless. But that's just a naive 'wish' on my part because how do you simply will away negative connotations from a word that has been used in its derogatory sense for decades?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed May 24, 2017 1:06 pm

You don't? She plays a successful stage actress who shares a tender kiss with another woman during a stage rehearsal. On a stage that is lit in blue, and even has a telephone perched on a bed side table. Sound familiar?

I remember that scene but I somehow do not remember Watts in that part at all!

Birdman might be do a rewatch for me too. Haven't seen it since the Oscar season that year.

Primer

I do think that exploring the how power corrupts the friendship was the intent, just none of the drama behind it landed at all for me, and the aesthetic hurts it more than it helps IMO. This is perhaps a topic for another thread though lol.

A few people were quite excited on my Facebook about TP's return but they've all gone radio-silent since it premiered. I assume they had a similar reaction as your mother.

It seems like mostly the people that are only TP fans but haven't seen like, anything else Lynch has done since the show. On another forum, before the season started I got fed up with people telling newbies to skip through half of season 2 and shitposted that the best way to actually watch TP was "Blue Velvet > Fire Walk With Me > The International Version of the Pilot > Any given Let's Play of Silent Hill 2 > Deadly Premonition (Xbox 360 version) > Eraserhead > Inland Empire", though ironically that ended up not being the most inaccurate advice I could have given lmao.

Some of these people were watching the new season and hadn't even seen FWWM but had seen the other two seasons. Madness I say.

I can't believe that people would say vile shit to your face about your brother.

It's not often I'll hear people say things about my brother directly, but I've had plenty of people saying that shit about people like him to me without knowing about my brother's condition. It's very similar to a time at my old job where an older white person tried to make a coded comment to me about how she doesn't like poor black people. The kind of people that think they can get away with talking about others if they're not being watched.

When out in public strangers do often stare though. Glare back at adults and they usually look away. Little kids don't know any better and keep on staring.

That I'm aware of, as a non-native English speaker.

Frankly I'm surprised and impressed that English isn't your first language! I had you pegged as a native speaker.

I've tried multiple times learning Spanish over the years but it's never really stuck with me. :(

What helps immensely, though, is when people like you politely enlighten, instead of jump to conclusions about how the problematic word is being used with malicious intentions.

For a lot of these people I really do think it's a "straw that broke the camel's back" thing and it causes them to lash at targets that aren't the most worthy of the scorn. I'm in a position myself where I've been on both sides in these kinds of scenarios, so I try to be understanding, and at times meditative.

But that's just a naive 'wish' on my part because how do you simply will away negative connotations from a word that has been used in its derogatory sense for decades?

There has been some success with this to be fair- the LGBT community here in America has done a good job with reclaiming "queer" for example, though a gander at any given YouTube comments section will show that it hasn't completely gone away as an insult yet.

Progress is slow unfortunately, slower than it should be, though if its slow I like to hope its at least as mighty as a glacier.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sat May 27, 2017 11:09 pm

I saw episodes 3 and 4. Firstly, some stray thoughts:

Raxivace wrote:I do think that exploring the how power corrupts the friendship was the intent, just none of the drama behind it landed at all for me, and the aesthetic hurts it more than it helps IMO. This is perhaps a topic for another thread though lol.

I thought we could derail any thread we wanted to...? Or are we respecting the sanctity of Twin Peaks? You're right. I think we should.

Raxivace wrote:On another forum, before the season started I got fed up with people telling newbies to skip through half of season 2 and shitposted that the best way to actually watch TP was "Blue Velvet > Fire Walk With Me > The International Version of the Pilot > Any given Let's Play of Silent Hill 2 > Deadly Premonition (Xbox 360 version) > Eraserhead > Inland Empire", though ironically that ended up not being the most inaccurate advice I could have given lmao.

I swear, even more than the actual show, FWWM and Inland Empire would have made for a better warm-up! Also, I do not understand how people could watch this show without having seen Lynch's FWWM. Madness, absolutely.

Raxivace wrote:When out in public strangers do often stare though. Glare back at adults and they usually look away. Little kids don't know any better and keep on staring.

It really irks me when I see people staring at someone with a condition. One of my pet peeves. That kind of behaviour from anyone, adult or child, would elicit glares from me too.

Raxivace wrote:There has been some success with this to be fair- the LGBT community here in America has done a good job with reclaiming "queer" for example, though a gander at any given YouTube comments section will show that it hasn't completely gone away as an insult yet. Progress is slow unfortunately, slower than it should be, though if its slow I like to hope its at least as mighty as a glacier.

Well-said. And let's not even talk about youtube comments. It's terrifying to read all the shit people will say hiding behind their internet anonymity.

Okay. So this season is indeed shaping up to be quite interesting. I know you mentioned you were confused about the third Dale Cooper, Dougie Jones. From what I could piece together, some trickery by Bob/Coop's evil doppelganger (alluded by him in the second episode) enabled him to survive the mandatory 'switch', causing the real Cooper to trade places with his 'manufactured' lookalike, Dougie, instead of Bob. How the evil Coop has orchestrated this... I guess we will find out. For now, we have Special Agent Dale Cooper who spent 25 years in a demonic limbo trying to re-adjust to the real world, currently devoid of any personality and life and capable of only repeating the last phrase of whatever is uttered to him like an alien from an other world. It's heart-breaking given how much we all miss the old Coop, but Lynch is certainly able to wrangle some sly humor out of the absurdity (I know I laughed a couple of times in these two episodes, especially with Cooper's antics and Lucy/Andy scenes - "chocolate bunny!"). I loved the scene in which Cooper FINALLY drinks coffee and utters a maniacal "hi" (a moment every TP fan was waiting for).

I was quite hypnotized by everything else too - the metallic box suspended amidst the stars, the woman with no eyes, the thudding on the door, the image of Cooper coming out of an electrical socket - some memorable visual imagery there. The woman with no eyes felt like she came out of Silent Hill. In fact, the way that whole sequence was shot and edited into a kind of elliptical madness was creepy as hell, and absolutely brilliant.

Cooper's visions enabling him to become Mr Jackpots, his interaction with the homeless woman, and figuring out where "home" is through another awkward conversation was fun. I loved Watts. Oh, please, let there be plenty more of her. Lynch really did strike gold when he found her for MD. (And vice-versa, I suppose.)

I enjoyed the check-in with Hawk, Bobby, Andy and Lucy (as well as their son, Cera's Waldo, who's every bit as kooky as his parents in a completely opposite way). Bobby tearing up when he sees Laura's picture - with that theme playing in the background - made me kinda choke up too. Just like old times. Ugh, Lynch's emotional manipulations work really well on me.

I'm curious to find out what Blue Rose means, I'm not sure who Phillip Jeffries is, and I want to know who the hell Cole and Albert are talking about at the end of the episodes. Audrey, right?!

I also like that we had two more performances ending each of the new episodes. I genuinely really like the vibe of the music and how it fits into the show (well, as a bookend, but still).

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sun May 28, 2017 1:52 pm

"Hellllooooooooooooooo!" There were definitely some funny bits with Cooper post-escape. Some of the stuff with his fake son and Naomi Watts were pretty good too.

The Woman With No Eyes creeped the hell out of me despite being way nicer and more helpful than any of the Silent Hill monsters she resembles. Her warnings about "Mother" made me think of the spooky ghost in the glass box from the first episode, since that was vaguely feminine looking at least. The Woman herself I don't know what to make of- my first thought upon seeing her was "Is that Josie?", but I don't know why. I've seen some people suggest its somehow Ronette, but I'm not exactly sure I understand the argument. And yeah the editing in this whole sequence was cool- I thought it was my shitty internet streaming at first, though I'd love to look at it again on blu-ray or something.

Any thought on Hawk's "heritage"? Some people have suggested that's its a somewhat racist joke about Hawk needing to look for Cooper at the casino. Someone else also noticed that on one of the bookshelves in the episodes that there is a book straight up called something like "Indian Heritage". Not sure what to make of it myself.

My own only barely supported crackpot theory is that Cooper's Doppleganger is not BOB, and that BOB has possessed Bobby. Think about it. Bobby has:

-White hair now.
-Had relations with Laura
-Is named "BOBby"
-And now has had a strange crying outburst in public, related to Laura (Excellent scene btw)

It really seems to resemble Leland in the original series. Might be a red herring or me reading too much into it (And it's sort of a joke theory sort of not too on top of that), but I thought it was worth mentioning.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sun May 28, 2017 9:53 pm

Haha, I forgot the weird, awkward diction of Coop's "Hellooooooooooooooo!" That is how I plan to pronounce hello from now on.

My first thought upon seeing the The Woman was "Audrey?", and I don't know why myself. I mean, what would Audrey be doing in this limbo netherworld operating the gateway to the 'real' realm? Not sure how Ronette fits into this, but let's see. BTW, I haven't been reading up on theories circulating around the interwebs, outside of this thread.

On Hawk, I'm pretty clueless and I sure hope it's not a racist joke lol. My first thoughts on his heritage drifted to the brutal massacre of his people. Perhaps a location in TP where injustice was committed against the Natives. But yeah, I have no idea.

Woah, I think you really might be on to something there with your theory. If he did indeed marry Shelly, he also has a daughter named Becky who is going through some troubled times, as is mentioned briefly in the climax of the second episode! I don't know what this means for Coop's doppelganger though, since we do see BOB staring at Coop in his reflection in the S2 climax. Perhaps, BOB - being an abstract representation of the evil lurking in Man - can exist simultaneously in separate physical entities? I don't know, but the similarities between Leland and Bobby's emotional outbursts (and white hair!) are indeed uncanny.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:11 pm

Episode 5 kind of slows down the pace a bit. Some new puzzles to enhance the complexity (What was up with that shrinking tiny black monolithic box with the beeping red lights? How did Coop's doppelganger cause a lights show at the prison?), one old mysterious thread became a joke (well... now we know what Jacoby was doing with the shovels), and small tidbits of information added further layers to the existing threads (Major Brigg's Garland's prints and their recurrence, Dougie's wedding ring winding up in a dead body that certainly could not have been Dougie's who got turned into a golden ball at the Lodge). I must fully admit that Coop's whole reintegration is beginning to drag a bit and I wish we had made some kind of real progress on that front. I thoroughly enjoyed it during the last 4 episodes but I was hoping coffee would speed up the process a bit but, nope, all he knows that is that he really loves coffee and the word "agent" resonates with him. Anyway, I liked that we finally saw Becky and her boyfriend, Steve. I continue to get Laura Palmer vibes from Becky, especially now that we finally see her in the flesh. The way her mood seems to oscillate from saddened to ecstatic (granted, that could have been the drugs) suggests there's a battle raging underneath. It could be a red herring... and I have no idea what to make of the unusual occurrence at the Bang Bang Bar. Will this new guy turn out to be an 'acquaintance' of Becky?

I was disappointed they did not pick up where Episode 4 left off. I really wanted to find out who Cole and Albert were talking about.

BTW, I couldn't help notice how 'screens' populate nearly each and every scene in this episode. There's a screen behind the newly introduced "worrier" woman at the beginning. Jacoby's advert is broadcast live to Nadine and Jerry who observe on their respective screens. There are a gazillion screens at the casino security room, as well as at the police station, where evil Coop performs his lights show. Tammy spends a fair bit of time comparing prints on her computer screen. Hell, there's even one in the meeting room where Dougie blurts out 'liar' to the guy who covered for him. I'm sure someone will tell me what this is about at some point.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:03 pm

Raxivace, have you stopped watching Twin Peaks or something?

Nothing on Episode 6?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:47 pm

Nah I think the show has been great and I loved episodes 5 and 6. I've just been a bit busy lately and haven't quite figured out how to talk about these two new episodes yet.

I will say I'm glad to see the glorious return of Jeremy Davies to television as well as Laura Dern as Diane.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:11 am

Daniel Faraday is back! And damn, I sure wish we got to see more of Diane. Looking forward to her meeting with evil Coop next week.

I didn't fully understand Coop's scribbling on the insurance files but I assume that he correctly highlighted discrepancies with his drawings of circles, ladders, stairs and lines. And that this come as a kind of emotional revelation for his boss. A touch of an other-worldly vibe. Were you able to make any more sense out of it?

Cooper's silly grin as he says "Jade" when Watts' character confronts him with the picture was hilarious. Also, "she gave two rides" and "I bet she did".

The Man with One Arm asking Coop to wake up and not die was a nice way to let him know how the audience feels. That Ice Pick killer was brutal and Coop does need to wake the hell up if he wants to have a chance.

Also brutal was that hit and run sequence with that poor kid. Carl sees a yellow "soul" depart from the boy's body. And I think Miriam might get in some trouble. (Apart from the ascending yellow blob, there was a lot of yellow in this episode, especially when Dougie was around. I'm not making this up. The table lamp on Dougie's dining table, Watts' clothes, the painted walls of the boy's bedroom, the house telephone, the big decoration at 7 Insurance, the picture behind Dougie's boss... I can only assume it is symbolic of innocence. Or maybe it just adds a levity.)

It'll be much easier to talk about this show when we've seen all of it (or at least more than 75% of it) and can make sense of the oddities that we can't really comment much about right now.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:13 am

[quote]Were you able to make any more sense out of it?[/quote]It definitely seemed like he was using the pictures to communicate something about insurance fraud, presumably about the dude Cooper accused of being a liar last episode. It all kind of reminds me of Double Indemnity (Which Season 2 had a giant walking reference too anyways).

I also noticed the reference to The King and I, which IIRC Pete actually mentioned was one of his favorite movies back in Season 2. Not sure what to make of that.

[quote]The Man with One Arm asking Coop to wake up and not die was a nice way to let him know how the audience feels.[/quote]I'm starting to think that the season is more about wanting Cooper back than him actually turning back to normal. It's done through (Strangely sincere and surprisingly empathetic) absurdist comedy but it really does remind me of like, how people with Alzheimer's and whatnot are just kind of ignored by society at large. We may want the cool Cooper/grandpa that taught us life lessons and took us out to eat cherry pie, but the one we have now only seemingly has moments of lucidity. We end up with people either pretending he's normal, audience that merely wants the older version of their grandpa back, but very few actually tried to give him any help. Like Jade has probably done more than anyone else to actually help the poor dude. Good on her.

Jade...isn't there something in Arthurian mythology about jade or the color green? I can't really remember. There's been a lot of other Arthurian references this season and I seem to remember some in season 2.

I dunno what to make of all those sevens. Maybe its related to the casino.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:41 pm

Rax, do you remember in the first episode, we begin with The Giant telling Coop about Linda and Richard... "two birds with one stone". Well, a Linda (referenced by the man in the van talking to Karl in the last episode) and a Richard (Horne) have both surfaced... not sure what to make of it.

Episode 7 finally talks more about Coop's known past. I'm quite troubled by the implication of Richard being evil Coop and Audrey's child... a child Audrey after being raped by evil Coop. Can it get more disgusting? It's depressing. And the fact that BOB in his evil Coop costume might have done the same to Diane. Need to cry in a dark corner right now.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:33 am

I had wondered about the Diane thing myself, but the Richard thing makes a disturbing amount of thematic sense. :(

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:06 am

Man right after I thought this show was calming down a bit the newest episode makes Eraserhead look ordinary.

I'm going to need some help with this one. Like there's some kind of connection between the atomic bomb and the Lodges I guess, but beyond that I'm confused.

Also did "The" fucking Nine Inch Nails bring DoppleCoop back to life?

I'm going to need to watch this again. I love it.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:06 pm

After the Internet's reaction to the show last night, I decided I might want to watch it. (I haven't read any of this thread.) Is that a good idea for someone who likes horror and weird surreal stuff but knows literally absolutely nothing about the original?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:18 pm

It is good if you're into that stuff but it also assumes you've seen the original series and the movie Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

The original show was hugely influential on the "Golden Age of Television" for a reason and is still worth watching- the tone is a little different from the later stuff though since it veers between murder mystery, a satire of soap operas, teenaged drama, and yeah some moments of crazy horror stuff. It was made for early 90's network television though so it doesn't quite get to the crazy levels that the movie did, and this new season pushes what the movie was doing even further.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:14 pm

Raxivace wrote:Man right after I thought this show was calming down a bit the newest episode makes Eraserhead look ordinary.

I'm going to need some help with this one. Like there's some kind of connection between the atomic bomb and the Lodges I guess, but beyond that I'm confused.

Also did "The" fucking Nine Inch Nails bring DoppleCoop back to life?

I'm going to need to watch this again. I love it.

Lynch outdid himself somehow, turning in the kind of mythologically dense, nightmarish "back story" that I'd never thought I'd need or even want for the TP universe... until I actually saw it. I don't know what to make of most of it (although I do know some of the interpretations I've come across in the comments sections - which I usually never bother to visit - were absurdly, unsatisfyingly literal) but I feel fortunate to have experienced it on a bigger screen in pitch-black darkness at 4 AM. Ain't ever gonna forget the experience, that's for sure. Lynch doesn't need to make a movie again, as far as I'm concerned.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:30 am

I'd be curious to know what interpretations those were.

I've seen some I've found intriguing readings that, IMO, convincingly argue that talking about nuclear bombs is the culmination of Lynch's obsession with the 40's and 50's, and I think it's a legitimately interesting lens to view the original series through since a lot of the stuff, especially with the Lodges, actually does seem to have a corollary in history with the nukes. I mean we have a Sheriff Harry S. Truman after all. President Truman ordered the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Even BOB, "Robertson" as identified by Leland, the son of Robert...is arguably a reference to Robert J. Oppenheimer's invention "fathering" BOB in S3E08.

There's more stuff I'll have to dig up later.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:35 pm

Oh, those interpretations were trying to forcefully equate the nameless boy and girl shown in the last fifteen minutes of the episode with Leland or Laura. I lost count of the number of posts discussing ages and timelines...

I'm inclined to believe that Lynch was more interested in the allegorical potency of his tour-de-force... than he was in doing a literal showcase of Leland's or Laura's personal histories. While those two characters remain at the heart of the show, TP is about human evil on a much grander scale, untied to any one character (if the nuclear test site is any indication).

Then again, I could be proven wrong, in which case I'll come back - disappointed and with my tail between my legs.

So annoyed we won't get a new episode next week.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:03 am

http://thesearchforthezone.com/

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:31 pm

Raxivace wrote:http://thesearchforthezone.com/

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