Twin Peaks Season 3: :-) ALL

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:53 pm

I am visitor 154, apparently.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:51 pm

Also make sure to click the coordinates at the bottom for...something.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:07 am

Surprisingly straightforward episode tonight- seems like a lot of moving plot pieces into place. Not sure I understood the scene between Hawk and the Log Lady though.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:33 pm

I've been restless ever since the show came back from that game-changing episode 8. The best part of the episode was that startling reminder of a teary Laura, the core of this show, and one I hope it can, at some point, return to. More than halfway through now...

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:20 am

I've been enjoying these lighter episodes myself...

Which is kind of weird to say considering the violence in 10 with Audrey's evil son who may or may not be Evil Cooper's son as well.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:14 pm

Yeah, the violence was unusually disconcerting. That guy is really an irredeemable son of a bitch. Was hoping Audrey would finally be shown as his mother, but no such luck.

I seriously miss Audrey. And I'm beginning to miss the old Twin Peaks that Lynch refuses to give us.

Like I said, I've been feeling restless in the last few episodes.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:06 pm

Hurley is so cool.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:17 pm

James Hurley has always been cool.

Poor Big Ed still can't catch a break though. :(

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:33 pm

What a depressing way to close out the episode, eh. Good guys finish last. Evil guys win arm wrestling contests. And food can cure depression.

And you know what. I have kind of bought into your idea that we may never get old Coop back. That he may indeed be like the grandfather with Alzheimer's who used to be super cool a few decades ago but now barely seems to recognize you. A shell of who he once was.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:42 pm

Yeah I've accepted that we may never get old Coop back. It still could happen, but I think it seems unlikely.

Actually there's something weird with that Big Ed scene at the end. His reflection in the door doesn't seem to be in sync with him- I'm not sure if its a weird production error or if its more of...whatever the hell is happening with Sarah's TV.

She's watching what appears to be a very old boxing match...perhaps one that featured "Battling Bud"? It's hard to tell and I couldn't quite understand what the announcer was saying despite hearing it like eight times.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:01 pm

I'll tell you what the announcer was saying.

"Oh, the right hand catches the big guy by the ear.

And he finally goes down, hangs onto the ropes.

Oh, the gentleman asks him if he's okay.

Looks like, uh, round number one and two under way. Now it's a boxing match again. [bell clangs, cheering on TV]

[static sputter]"

Repeat x8

And is Audrey role-playing in some medical institution?

In a season constantly drawing attention to its own artifice, I liked that jarring shot that showed Ray's gang on the lower deck watching evil Coop talk to and murder their fellow compatriot on a supersized screen. And then, of course, you've mentioned the reflections on windows. (I liked the silhouette of Audrey in the window behind Charlie too.)

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:03 pm

Also, it turns out that Lynch has deliberately muddled up the timelines. Bobby declares to Big Ed that he's just come from his meeting with the Sheriff and Hawk. Looks like we won't see that fateful, magickal day come before the last few episodes.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:14 am

maz89 wrote:And is Audrey role-playing in some medical institution?1

I'm not sure what the deal with Audrey is. I've heard some people suggest that she's in a coma, caused by the explosion at the end of season 2. The last we hear about her in Frost's book has her in that coma still at any rate.

In a season constantly drawing attention to its own artifice, I liked that jarring shot that showed Ray's gang on the lower deck watching evil Coop talk to and murder their fellow compatriot on a supersized screen.

Yeah that's a good one.

Speaking of that scene, I'm still not sure I understand any of this Phillip Jefferies stuff.

maz89 wrote:Also, it turns out that Lynch has deliberately muddled up the timelines. Bobby declares to Big Ed that he's just come from his meeting with the Sheriff and Hawk. Looks like we won't see that fateful, magickal day come before the last few episodes.

I noticed that bit with Bobby too. It's hard to tell if its just achronological storytelling or if there's something else afoot.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:25 am

Andy in the Lodge what the fuck. SARAH PALMER WHAT THE FUCK.

JANEY IS DIANE'S SISTER

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:42 am

http://i.imgur.com/lUU6QMh.gifv

^Me watching the newest episode (Heavy spoilers).

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:21 pm

I'll be fine, fine. I'll be fine, fine. I'll be fiiiiine.

No I WON'T. WTF was going on with Sarah Palmer! Spot on gif you got there, mate.

I need to digest this. Tons of good stuff. The Diane and Jane sibling connection, Gordon Cole's dream, the appearance of the Woman With No Eyes, Andy's visit to the Giant's universe (or should I say the Fireman's), Freddie's story about the green glove, Sarah Palmer... even the random conversation that closes the episode was more interesting and eerie than it usually is.

Anyway, I'm quite bummed that, because I'll be travelling from August 31st to September 16th (Eurotrip!!!), I will NOT BE ABLE TO WATCH THE TWO HOUR FINALE UNTIL SEPTEMBER 17th.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:25 pm

Can I just say I love Grace Zabriskie? I'm so glad she's actually getting some screentime in the latter half of this series.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:51 pm

Well, Lynch had us almost fooled there with Big Ed's lonely drinking night at his gas station... An unusually upbeat beginning, but which I welcomed. 25 years too late, but better late than never, right?

Margaret Lanterman's exit couldn't have been better done. What a perfect way to say goodbye to TP's most iconic character. In the familiar meeting room of the Twin Peaks Sheriff station with the key players from the original series engulfed in shadows as Hawk delivers the sobering news. The haunting score fits the image of Hawk's bowing body merging seamlessly with the douglas firs(?), finally landing on the Log Lady's now-dark house. The fact that Catherine E Coulson filmed these sequences knowing about her own deteriorating health gives them an otherworldly quality, injecting even more pathos to her moving performance.

Well, I'm glad that Lynch did the Bowie dedication last week because it might have been disrespectful doing it after showing Jeffries in his new hissing industrial machinery form, lol.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:36 am

That was a pretty sad bit. By all accounts Catherine E. Coulson was a dope as fuck lady so she will be missed.

Agreed about David Bowie the Ghostly Teapot Monster.

Anyways I thought the Sunset Blvd. scene was really cool- actually using the fact that a TP character was named after one from a classic noir just made that scene kind of meta-spooky. I hope Dougie is okay though. :(

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:28 am

Sunset Blvd must have been one of the first film noirs I ever saw, which was maybe 9 years ago... so I didn't realize that that was where the clip came from. Yes, I need to see it again.

But yes, it was superbly done. FINALLY saw a glimmer of the old Cooper in something other than his reaction to coffee and pie. Maybe the electrical jolt will be what he needed to wake the fuck up. Or maybe not...

Curious to see where this James stuff will lead. Felt a bit out of place tonally compared with the rest of the episode. Maybe Lynch/Frost want to imitate the original which had its fair share of silly towards the end.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:33 am

IIRC the pilot ends with James in prison getting barked at by Bobby and Mike, so I figured this was a callback to that.

It's kind of weird that he got arrested at all but whatever. I just think it's hilarious that James is friends with a British version of the guy from One Punch Man.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:43 am

Chad getting tormented by that drooling bruised imitator was/is funny.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:54 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts ... wtime.html

I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen more pieces like this.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:11 pm

You're right. That was actually a decent read. There should be more comparisons of these polar opposites. Maybe you can do a deep dive?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:18 pm

A deep dive sounds like effort. If I happen to see anything interesting I'll share it though.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:00 am

WTF OMG

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:01 am

Mr. C killed Richard.

Cooper is back.

DIANE.

WTF THAT REVERSED AUDREY THEME

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:53 pm

Man. I just saw it and now I'm super depressed that I won't be able to see the finale until September 16th or 17th.

WTF IS GOING ON WITH AUDREY?! "AUDREY'S DANCE" THEME?? My mind...

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm

You must find a Greek television to watch the finale.

My grandmother was from Greece so I think that's a sign you'll be able to find one if you look.

But yeah I feel like we're going to get some crazy shit that really recontextualizes what we've been watching in these final two hours because holy fuck what is going on.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:50 pm

Raxivace wrote:You must find a Greek television to watch the finale.

My grandmother was from Greece so I think that's a sign you'll be able to find one if you look.

That's definitely a sign. What'll work as another sign is if I'm walking around the Acropolis and I hear, in the distance, the Laura Palmer theme playing and I walk closer to catch a large projector open to the general public playing the finale of Twin Peaks... That can happen too, right?!

In all honesty, the schedule will be so jampacked (we're doing a bunch of cities in a small amount of time) that I won't have time to sit down to watch 2 hours of uninterrupted TP. Not unless I want to be disowned by the friends I'm travelling with, lol.

Travelling on the 31st so I'll be silent for a while.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:16 pm

Anyways before I forget have fun on your vacation maz. I'll be here thinking which of my coffee mugs I should drink from while watching the finale.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:31 pm

Haha, you just had to throw that second bit in there, didn't you?

Thanks, Raxi! Talk to you soon!

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:50 pm

Found another one of those "GoT vs. TP" articles, though its one that seems more cynical about GoT than I am.

Also there's an interesting and telling poll from when the original series aired-

I'm really excited for the finale tonight.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:00 am

Immediate thoughts upon seeing the finale: I have no idea wtf is going on anymore.

Has been Cooper been lost again? "Is it future or is it past"? "What year is this?" I'm not sure what this means or what is going on anymore. Things are enigmatic as hell right now, and this is probably the end.

Twin Peaks Season 3.0:You Can (Not) Redo.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 am

It seems online that the kinds of people that would hate the finale that the Lynch of INLAND EMPIRE created all seem to hate it. That also seems very Twin Peaks to me, in its own way.

I await your reaction whenever it may come, maz.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Now that I've sat on it for some time, I've decided that Twin Peaks Season 3 has the only artistic ending to an American television show made in the 21st century.

Too many of the right kind of people hate it for it to not actually be an amazing accomplishment that is only secondary to both the TV ending of Evangelion as well as EoE. That is my controversial opinion and I'm sticking to it.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:34 pm

Well I don't know about EoE or Evangelion's endings, but fuck, that ending was amazingly Lynchian. After a conventional fight off between good and evil (in a ridiculously over the top sequence that was filmed in a not-so-traditional way), Lynch pulls the rug from beneath the audience, blurring good and evil, turning Cooper into another kind of tragic shell of a man - cipher-like, vacant and so utterly lost. "What year is this?" Fuck. Need to think.

I might need a fourth season.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:01 pm

It's like that joke with Gordon Cole.

"You've gone soft!"

"Not where it counts."

In retrospect that's a pretty big hint that shit was about to get fucked up.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:07 am

Lynch gave an interview about season 3 that's probably the most candid he's been yet.

Of course since he's Lynch so it's still not the most revealing thing in the world. Still, some interesting tidbits in there.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:09 am

I'll give it a read.

That ending is still haunting me, man. Can't shake off the depressing vibe of that last hour. It is probably the best ending of any TV show since the Sopranos.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:20 am

I need to actually watch The Sopranos. I've seen the pilot like two or three times at this point and every time I watch it feels satisfying enough that I just never watch any more episodes lmao.

The reactions to the Twin Peaks ending have been fascinating. I've seen a lot of people swear to their graves that Cooper has never been an arrogant character that makes mistakes so therefore this ending doesn't make sense. I'm like, did you see the original two seasons lol? If anything the season 3 ending kind of reinforces what I thought about him to begin with.

Really puts the Dougie stuff in a different light too- arguably he did more good as Dougie than as Cooper who always bit off more than he could chew.

What this all means on a deeper level though I'm not really sure yet.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:37 am

You haven't seen The Sopranos?!?! And you were giving ME a hard time for not having seen Evangelion?!

Yeah, Cooper was always the chipper, cheerful hero who delighted in finding clues and solving mysteries. Except this is the one mystery he can't solve. He can't bring back people from the dead. In the end, he just becomes so utterly lost. Maybe the mystery/tragedy of Laura Palmer drove him mad. "What year is this?" is probably the most shattering question he's ever asked, the first time he's acknowledged defeat and exhibited self awareness.

After the conventional, surreal defeat of evil Coop, it almost seems like that evil Coop never really leaves but instead becomes a part of Coop. We literally saw Cooper for 1.5 episodes because we get an odd, icy hybrid of good Coop and evil Coop in the last 90 minutes. That has to be one of the most uncomfortable sex scenes ever, not helped by the lack of passion/distant expression on Coop's face.

I'm going to watch the finale again over the weekend. Why was Sarah Palmer destroying Laura's picture? I have never been so terrified of Grace Zabriskie.

Also, RIP Harry Dean Stanton. :(

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:38 am

Hey, Evangelion is 26 short episodes plus a few movies- none of which are super long. The Sopranos is a million years long and doesn't have any giant robots fighting giant monsters. Who's having the real hard time here?

Yeah, Cooper was always the chipper, cheerful hero who delighted in finding clues and solving mysteries. Except this is the one mystery he can't solve.

The thing is, did Cooper even really solve the murder of Laura Palmer to begin with? He had a lot of supernatural help, and even then multiple people were still killed in the course of his investigation after he already had arrived in Twin Peaks (To say nothing of what happens once Windam Earle comes on the scene).

He's always been kind of incompetent IMO.

After the conventional, surreal defeat of evil Coop, it almost seems like that evil Coop never really leaves but instead becomes a part of Coop.

The weird thing is that while I definitely got that same impression about "Richard", diegetically good Coop and evil Coop somehow fusing doesn't make any sense to me. Last we saw of evil Coop was him burning in the Lodge after all- it's not like his death is where good Coop got his limited power over the Lodge...right?

Maybe it is I dunno.

I'm going to watch the finale again over the weekend. Why was Sarah Palmer destroying Laura's picture? I have never been so terrified of Grace Zabriskie.

There's been speculation that Sarah has been taken over by "Judy", and was destroying Laura's picture in frustration once she realized Cooper was fucking up the time stream.

I'm not sure if Cooper necessarily realized this though, or if that's why he wanted to bring Laura back to her house.

BTW what do you make of the stuff about Laura's house being owned by the Chalfonts and Tremonds? That was deep fucking cut into Twin Peaks lore that I didn't think we would have to care about anymore, and then the show ends on it.

Also, RIP Harry Dean Stanton. :(

He's having orgies up in heaven now. :(

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:03 am

Oh yeah one thing I want to add- doesn't the Fire Walk With Me poem read now like its describing Cooper's journey in the end?

Through the darkness of future past

The Magician longs to see

One chants out between two worlds:

Fire walk with me

Let's break this down line by line.

Through the darkness of future past

Cooper traveling into the past (At least he thinks he is until he's confused in the end. Perhaps "future past" is meant to reflect this? It also seems to recall MIKE's repeated question of "Is it future or is it past?")

The Magician longs to see

I'm assuming "The Magician" refers to Cooper here. If we go by, say, how The Magician is described in something like Tarot it certainly sounds Cooper-ish.

In the Magician's right hand is a wand raised toward heaven, the sky or the element æther, while his left hand is pointing to the earth. This iconographic gesture has multiple meanings, but is endemic to the Mysteries and symbolizes divine immanence, the ability of the magician to bridge the gap between heaven and earth. On the table in front of the Magician the symbols of the four Tarot suits signify the Classical elements of earth, air, fire and water. Beneath are roses and lilies, the flos campi and lilium convallium,[a] changed into garden flowers, to show the culture of aspiration

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magician_(Tarot_card)

I dunno if a reference like this was intended, but it fits awfully closely to what Cooper does in the show IMO. Anyways Cooper certainly seems like he was "longing" to see Laura (Again?) to the point he...

One chants out between two worlds:

Certainly seems like he chanted out between two worlds. Originally I assumed the "two worlds" were the "real world" and the Black Lodge. Maybe instead it refers to the "real" world and the world of "Richard and Linda".

Fire walk with me

If "Fire" is supposed to be Laura, then well Cooper has gone out into another world and chanted to the "Fire" to walk with him.

"Fire" might also be evil Cooper, who we last saw literally on fire and it does seem like "Richard" somehow has evil Cooper inside of him as we said.

I think Laura is more supported by the show, though why exactly she was associated with Fire to begin with back in the original show is a bit lost on me (Perhaps that thing with Leland's abuser wanting to play with fire or whatever?).

Thoughts?

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:03 am

Raxivace wrote:Hey, Evangelion is 26 short episodes plus a few movies- none of which are super long. The Sopranos is a million years long and doesn't have any giant robots fighting giant monsters. Who's having the real hard time here?

Let's make a deal...

Raxivace wrote:
Yeah, Cooper was always the chipper, cheerful hero who delighted in finding clues and solving mysteries. Except this is the one mystery he can't solve.
The thing is, did Cooper even really solve the murder of Laura Palmer to begin with? He had a lot of supernatural help, and even then multiple people were still killed in the course of his investigation after he already had arrived in Twin Peaks (To say nothing of what happens once Windam Earle comes on the scene).

He's always been kind of incompetent IMO.

Yeah, that's what I meant. He "delighted" in finding clues and solving mysteries, even though he never actually solved too many of them. Although I wouldn't go so far as to call him incompetent. The Laura Palmer murder case was a tough one. ;)

Raxivace wrote:The weird thing is that while I definitely got that same impression about "Richard", diegetically good Coop and evil Coop somehow fusing doesn't make any sense to me. Last we saw of evil Coop was him burning in the Lodge after all- it's not like his death is where good Coop got his limited power over the Lodge...right?

Maybe it is I dunno.

I'm not sure how to read that myself but the whole reunion at the Sherriff's station - and the almost cartoonish resolution of the evil Coop thread - did indeed feel like a "surreal" dream. Because how do you get rid of evil? BOB was always a metaphor for the capacity for human evil, the way I understood it (even though the show tried to pardon Leland for his heinous acts by establishing as some external entity). So once the traditional good vs evil fight ends, the facade of victory fades away, and the show segues into the real thing*. Or something that at least resembles reality - or some version of it - more closely. Richard is more reserved and seems more disturbed than Cooper ever was. He isn't "evil" but he lacks the heart and optimism of the good ol' Coop. It's almost as if he's suddenly aware of his own faults, of his own limited ability to control or fix anything. He's the traditional good guy who is only now realizing that he can't really do any good. Or maybe he always realized it but the audience is only now shown the "other side".

*Of course, we're way past narrow-minded dream/reality interpretations, so maybe read that 'alternate reality' instead.

Raxivace wrote:There's been speculation that Sarah has been taken over by "Judy", and was destroying Laura's picture in frustration once she realized Cooper was fucking up the time stream.

I'm not sure if Cooper necessarily realized this though, or if that's why he wanted to bring Laura back to her house.

So Judy was pissed off that Laura was saved from her evil father. I see. Of course, the timeline is never really fucked with as Sarah's voice bleeds through into Coop's world, causing Laura to do her infamous, blood curdling screams.

I think Cooper/Richard was still in his default mode of trying to solve the one mystery that was never resolved (even though season 2 tried to imply it was). Maybe it was guilt and his own inability to deal with the truth (or delusions of grandeur?), but in his head, he would solve the mystery by bringing Laura to her mother in Twin Peaks. What makes all of these scenes work so bloody well is how Lynch shoots them. That long car ride from Carrie Page's house to Twin Peaks felt so real. Time suddenly slowed down to a crawl. The road engulfed in darkness. Cars zooming past. The tediously slow conversation on the porch of a familiar house. Each word uttered taking us further and further away from all that we know. Cooper breaking down much later, when the two are standing on the road again. "What year is this?" It was the code word that made him realize that something is very, very wrong.

What impeccable pacing.

Btw, I would have LOVED a reference to Madeleine but the show ignored her today just as it did 25 years ago. RIP Madeleine.

Raxivace wrote:BTW what do you make of the stuff about Laura's house being owned by the Chalfonts and Tremonds? That was deep fucking cut into Twin Peaks lore that I didn't think we would have to care about anymore, and then the show ends on it.

To be honest, I'm not familiar with the lore on the Chalfonts/Tremonds. :( Need to do some googling there.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:23 am

Raxivace wrote:Oh yeah one thing I want to add- doesn't the Fire Walk With Me poem read now like its describing Cooper's journey in the end?

This is actually pretty interesting and makes sense.

I read an another interesting analysis of the "meta" aspect of the show in some comments section somewhere. We've discussed as much ourselves (how the show is also about its own return), but this one had some insightful points to make about Dougie (serving as a symbol for Frost/Lynch's fear of their show dumbly repeating earlier seasons to the thunderous applause of die-hard fans) and about the ending (where Frost/Lynch could try to tamper with Twin Peaks past and 'save' Laura but they would end up lost much like Cooper himself). I dunno, it sounded much better in the other guy's words.

Raxivace wrote:If "Fire" is supposed to be Laura, then well Cooper has gone out into another world and chanted to the "Fire" to walk with him.

"Fire" might also be evil Cooper, who we last saw literally on fire and it does seem like "Richard" somehow has evil Cooper inside of him as we said.

I think Laura is more supported by the show, though why exactly she was associated with Fire to begin with back in the original show is a bit lost on me (Perhaps that thing with Leland's abuser wanting to play with fire or whatever?).

Thoughts?

Maybe it's because fire is untameable, unpredictable, mysterious? "Fire, Walk with Me" is then about someone trying to exert control/power over another or over something that can't (shouldn't?) be tamed.

But at the same time, fire is seen as an "evil" force. So why invite the devil to walk with you? To indulge oneself in forbidden pleasures? To unravel the plan of a higher power? Still feels like a power thing.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:50 pm

maz89 wrote:I dunno, it sounded much better in the other guy's words.

If you a link to a post or whatever from this guy I'd be curious to take a look.

maz89 wrote:
Let's make a deal...

Yeah I'll get to it right after I beat The Witcher 3.

(even though the show tried to pardon Leland for his heinous acts by establishing as some external entity)

As much as I love all of the Lodge mythology and such and even BOB as an actual character, this has always been by biggest problem with Twin Peaks as a whole- the dichotomy between BOB as metaphor and BOB as something the Ghostbusters would have sucked up with their proton packs. I'm not sure I'll ever feel completely settled on it, even with The Return in mind.

So once the traditional good vs evil fight ends, the facade of victory fades away, and the show segues into the real thing*. Or something that at least resembles reality - or some version of it - more closely. Richard is more reserved and seems more disturbed than Cooper ever was. He isn't "evil" but he lacks the heart and optimism of the good ol' Coop. It's almost as if he's suddenly aware of his own faults, of his own limited ability to control or fix anything. He's the traditional good guy who is only now realizing that he can't really do any good. Or maybe he always realized it but the audience is only now shown the "other side".

Fun fact- the actress that "Richard" and "Carrie" speak to at the end of the last episode actually isn't an actress- it's the woman who owns that house in real life.

There's some kind of metafictional element at play here- we even open The Return up with the "glass box" (AKA a television) that Cooper escapes from. What, if anything, is being said with these elements is being said though is something I'm unsure of.

The rest of your thoughts are good and interesting though I don't have anything to add, at least yet. :(

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:14 am

Hey Maz, remember the International version of the pilot? Someone on Reddit went back and watched it and noticed something.

Coincidence? That would be a hell of a specific thing to cast for.

Faustus5 · Post by **Faustus5** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:51 pm

Okay, I'm late to the show here because I don't have cable and had to rely on renting disks from Netflix, but I am absolutely loving this bonkers new season. Just finished episode 14 last afternoon and I'm going to put a theory out there that may have you in the know laughing at me, but here it goes:

Before she kills the guy at the bar, the image that flashes in Mrs. Palmer's face looks like the thing that appeared in the glass box and killed the couple who were having sex; it also resembles the thing that gave birth to BOB. I think she is the young girl who swallowed the weird bug thing and probably passed on BOB to Leland.

So there. Now as I watch the remaining episodes I'll get to find out. Meanwhile, were any of you having similar hunches after this episode? I don't want to read the thread too deeply for fear of spoiling myself.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:32 pm

Well, I always thought episode 8 was meant to be more metaphorical, and no character in it was meant to be tied to someone we know in the present so I never connected Sarah Palmer with the girl who swallows the bug.

But, yes, the image-flashing in Sarah Palmer's face did remind us of the evil in the glass box/Bob's "mother".