Well, well, well...

[Cassius Clay]

What a surprise that after all the DC blunders they actually make a good Wonder Woman movie.

MISANDRRRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

...looks like Maui's having trouble with his look...


But Wonder Woman is looking good...in more ways than one...

Honestly, the reason the DCEU has had so much trouble is because they doubled down on the dark & gritty when that just doesn't work for other comic book characters. Wonder Woman looks like it took the correct lessons on how to balance the drama, action, and comedy (unlike Suicide Squad).

[Raxivace]

I thought Man of Steel and Batman v Superman were both good.

Anyways I hope Wonder Woman is good. Hearing it supposedly has a lighter tone in response to fan criticism of the other movies is disheartening, but I'll give it a chance.

[Derived Absurdity]

Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

[CashRules]

Being dark and gritty works with the Batman and Green Arrow cast of characters if it's done right because they are supposed to be dark characters partly due to having no actual superpowers. Making characters dark and gritty when they have the power to destroy the planet = just too much.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

I thought Man of Steel and Batman v Superman were both good.

Anyways I hope Wonder Woman is good. Hearing it supposedly has a lighter tone in response to fan criticism of the other movies is disheartening, but I'll give it a chance.

MOS was OK. I actually liked the choice of making Superman killing Zod. It places new depth on his value not to kill so that humans do not have to suffer the same fate at his hands. The main problem with Batman v Superman was that it did so much to set up Justice League that it dropped the ball on a lot of plot points and set Superman backwards in his character development from the first movie. Setup was also an issue of Avengers 2, but at least there were jokes to balance everything out.

I saw Wonder Woman, and I think it's very well balanced in terms of where the humor is placed. Suicide Squad took the wrong lesson from the fans. Wonder Woman took the right lessons.

[Cassius Clay]

By "blunder" I basically mean how they were widely received...not just my personal take. My personal enjoyment had a lot to do with expectations tho. I was so hyped for MOS(because of the trailer), I saw it as on opening day...but it was hot garbage to me. And my expectations for BvS were so low that, by time I watched it(more than a year after it came out), I was surprised it was disparaged so much. That movie is at least a 7/10. And I actually appreciated Affleck's more troubled/"grittier" version of Batman.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

By "blunder" I basically mean how they were widely received...not just my personal take. My personal enjoyment had a lot to do with expectations tho. I was so hyped for MOS(because of the trailer), I saw it as on opening day...but it was hot garbage to me. And my expectations for BvS were so low that, by time I watched it(more than a year after it came out), I was surprised it was disparaged so much. That movie is at least a 7/10. And I actually appreciated Affleck's more troubled/"grittier" version of Batman.

I liked Batfleck and Wonder Woman in BvS. But that was not enough for me to overlook the obvious flaws.

"MARTHA!"

[Monk]

I thought Man of Steel and Batman v Superman were both good.

You should think something else.

[Derived Absurdity]

ouch

[Raxivace]

The main problem with Batman v Superman was that it did so much to set up Justice League that it dropped the ball on a lot of plot points and set Superman backwards in his character development from the first movie.

Eh there are definitely set ups for Wonder Woman/Justice League in BvS, but I think they work well enough as a self-contained element within BvS as it is. Not the strongest parts of the movie though.

Not sure what you mean about Superman's character being set back. Personally the quippy Whedon-y humor in the mainline Marvel movies is a detriment to me at this point and just generally feels overdone IMO.

You should think something else.

[Cassius Clay]

Damn. Why is Monk dunking with no regard for human life??

[Cassius Clay]

By "blunder" I basically mean how they were widely received...not just my personal take. My personal enjoyment had a lot to do with expectations tho. I was so hyped for MOS(because of the trailer), I saw it as on opening day...but it was hot garbage to me. And my expectations for BvS were so low that, by time I watched it(more than a year after it came out), I was surprised it was disparaged so much. That movie is at least a 7/10. And I actually appreciated Affleck's more troubled/"grittier" version of Batman.

I liked Batfleck and Wonder Woman in BvS. But that was not enough for me to overlook the obvious flaws.

"MARTHA!"

Yeah the whole Martha thing was cheesy. Still a decent movie to me.

[Derived Absurdity]

To be fair to Monk, BvS is an objectively bad movie, and anyone who likes it is objectively, empirically, factually wrong.

[CashRules]

Problems with BvS:

1) Martha!
2) "I'm a friend of your son's." Oh, you're friends now? Well that was fast. Three minutes ago you were one silly word away from killing him. For the first time in his existence the flying boy scout was humbled into the realization that a mere human really can kick his overpowered ass but everything is just hunky-dory now.
3) The explosion during the Senate hearing. Okay Superman, you can't see through lead, but didn't you find it just a little odd that a guy in a wheelchair had a fucking lead box attached to his wheelchair? Exactly what about that situation seemed kosher to you?
4) The worst Lex Luthor in history.
5) A Lex Luthor who not only was played horribly but somehow knew enough about Kryptonian biology and technology to just know he could create doomsday from Zod's blood. He literally learned all of this from a few hours of studying a Krptonite database. Bullshit.
6) How the fuck was a regular pocket knife able to cut through a Kryptonian's skin and make him bleed? Batman risked his life to build Kryptonite weapons. Why was the smartest detective on earth unaware that all he needed was a twenty dollar pocket knife?
7) Superman died. No the hell he didn't. Why even show that when everybody knows he will be alive and well in Justice League. Their source material for the fight was "The Dark Knight Returns" and they just changed which one died a fake death. The only problem is that in BvS it serves no purpose at all.
8) "Is she with you?" "I thought she was with you." How in the blue blazing hell did you think she was with Superman? You're the world's greatest detective. You already know who she is and you've already talked to her at least twice with no indication she had any connection to Superman. This was a line thrown in for absolutely no purpose. Why the hell are you acting like you just met her? But at least that was less time we had to listen to the twit who must have blown somebody to get the part of Luthor.
9) Just how many "biggest lies in human history" are there and does Luthor have a fucking list?
10) That ridiculous ghost scene with Jonathan Kent. It wasn't enough that his death in MoS made no damn sense but now they have to bring him back as a fucking ghost. Who did Costner blow to get that part?
11) Wonder Woman is not affected by Kryptonite and she has super strength. She could have thrown that damn spear from a mile away and easily killed Doomsday while the other two kept him distracted.
12) They completely missed the point of the source material for that fight. In both instances Superman was arrogant and needed to be taught a lesson. Only in this movie the lesson wasn't learned. He still got to be the big hero in the end and Batman was the one left feeling guilty.

The good things:

1) Although everyone who knows anything about DC comics should have known kryptonite would be involved, the fight was actually a good one up until "the word".
2) Affleck is a decent Batman. I admit to being surprised at this.
3) Gal Gadot could be the savior for the entire DC movie business. If they don't ruin Wonder Woman with cheesiness she could easily be the best of the entire Justice League lineup. She's already better than this version of Superman we've seen in two movies so far and there's no doubt she'll be better than Cyborg considering there is absolutely no reason for a B-level (at best) character like Cyborg to even be in the first Justice League film and a wooden spoon would be more interesting than anything the Cyborg character could possibly do.
4) Amy Adams - best Lois Lane ever.
5) I guess it was sort of fun and a little funny for fans of The Walking Dead to see Negan and Maggie as a married couple while during their regular job he was having fun bashing her husband's skull to a pulp.

[Raxivace]

"They completely missed the point of the source material for that fight. In both instances Superman was arrogant and needed to be taught a lesson. Only in this movie the lesson wasn't learned. He still got to be the big hero in the end and Batman was the one left feeling guilty."

The movie is not the source material. You are correct that in the movie Batman is the one who needs redemption, to be "humbled" and that Superman is where the film's moral center is. This is the plot of the film.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

The main problem with Batman v Superman was that it did so much to set up Justice League that it dropped the ball on a lot of plot points and set Superman backwards in his character development from the first movie.

Eh there are definitely set ups for Wonder Woman/Justice League in BvS, but I think they work well enough as a self-contained element within BvS as it is. Not the strongest parts of the movie though.

Not sure what you mean about Superman's character being set back. Personally the quippy Whedon-y humor in the mainline Marvel movies is a detriment to me at this point and just generally feels overdone IMO.

You should think something else.

Considering Flash inserted himself into Bruce's present reality/vision, I would argue it's not at all contained. And even if it were, because of the poor editing, the detour from the plot to that is incredibly noticeable. Between Flash suddenly appearing, the utterly ridiculous vision of an Apokoliptan invasion, and introducing the other members through a clumsily edited plot device like a thumbdrive with security videos, it was just too much.

What I mean by Superman being set back is we already had his "Do I want to be a hero for humanity" brooding phase in MoS. It was rehashed in BvS, complete with random vision of Kevin Costner. He should have been at a point where he was defending the light and hope he brings to the world. How the events of Man of Steel shaped him to be a beacon of good and a protector of the planet. Instead, it's just more of the same "well do I want to be a hero, or say 'fuck you' to humanity?".

[Cassius Clay]

Honestly the only thing I really liked about BvS were the Batman scenes...particularly the confrontations with Superman. Why? 'Cause fuck Superman, that's why.

Tho it was kind of a bitch move to silently whisper "you will" after Superman punked him.

[Monk]

Problems with BvS:


6) How the fuck was a regular pocket knife able to cut through a Kryptonian's skin and make him bleed? Batman risked his life to build Kryptonite weapons. Why was the smartest detective on earth unaware that all he needed was a twenty dollar pocket knife?

I think it was lined with Kryptonie?

Anyway, there are plenty of issues with this movie that I'll also add.

1) Why would anyone think Superman SHOT the people in the African village? If he were to kill all of them, which would be completely out of character for him, why the hell would he bother using a gun? Again, makes no sense.

2) Why did Lex Luthor use proprietary bullets in the African terrorist scene that could very easily be traced back to him? It literally makes no sense. The whole point is to blame the deaths of Superman.

3) Senators don't have any control over what gets imported into the country, so why Lex went to a Senator makes no sense nor how she would be able to block his request.

4) In what world would the government release Zod's entire body, or his ship, to Lex without ANY supervision? That thing would be under constant surveillance with tight security. It would be the basis of massive research projects.

5) Why did Batman, after planting a tracking device, continue to recklessly chase the bad guys? It seemed like a contrived plot device to get Superman to stop him. Wouldn't Batman just clandestinely steal it after tracking it to its final location? He basically ended up doing this anyway.

6) Why did Batman, the world's greatest detective, not bother to investigate the bombing of the congressional hearing. Would he not find it strange that Luthor wasn't there? Why don't the police investigate this? It would be pretty easy to trace it back to Luthor.

7) Why did Batman lure Doomsday BACK to Gotham? Wasn't his whole motivation in fighting Superman that Superman was too powerful, he caused far too much destruction during his fight with Zod?

8) Why didn't Batman, the world's greatest detective who was planning on waging war with Superman, spend any time trying to figure out his secret identity? Lois Lane was basically able to do it in a like a week's time the last movie, yet somehow Bruce couldn't or never bothered to find out?

9) Biggest plot problem of all: what in the hell was Luthor's plan if Doomsday succeeded and killed Batman/Superman? How did he expect to control him? Doomsday would just go on rampaging, destroying the city.

[Derived Absurdity]

Lol, I finally just saw it. It sucked even worse than I was expecting, but maybe that's because I was too hyped. Gal Gadot and Chris Pine were good, but that was all. Don't really see how it was much better than BvS tbh.

Seriously, I don't even get things like this. I just saw an extremely predictable, boring, cliched superhero movie with bad dialogue and extremely awful themes, and yet everyone else thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. What, do people think they have to like it just because it isn't horrific like DC's previous films? Was that their plan the whole time? Release horrific films so that when they finally release a mediocre one everything thinks it's great by comparison? I don't even get it. What am I missing? I haven't felt this much disconnect since watching Million Dollar Baby... which was like a few weeks ago.

I mean, I figured this would happen. Same thing happened with M Night Shyamalan... everyone thinks he made a "comeback" just because his newer movies are mediocre instead of awful like they used to be. Why can't people just treat movies like they are instead of comparing them to something else?

[BruceSmith78]

Yeah, I didn't get the Wonder Woman hype either. It's cool to see a superhero on screen kicking ass and stuff, and this movie actually had some comedy, so I guess that made it better than most DC movies, and it's great that a superhero movie with a female lead and female director is doing so well, but what made this better or different than the first Thor movie or Captain America movie? Like you said, it was very predictable. I knew immediately that Wonder Woman was the God Killer, as soon as that plot device was mentioned, and I knew the old man was Ares almost as soon as he was introduced. I guess I didn't know they would be siblings, but did that really matter? Killing Ares didn't even seem to matter. The final boss battle was pretty much pointless. It's not even really all that feminist, since as people pointed out, the plot was only advanced by Chris Pine's character, and Wonder Woman was more of a supporting character.

[Anakin McFly]

I just saw an extremely predictable, boring, cliched superhero movie

Sometimes the appeal lies in that familiarity of taking well-known stories and tropes and doing them over in new guises - like how the Hero's Journey has persisted through the millennia. It's comforting because it's familiar and predictable, and that effect might be heightened when the world is being particularly uncertain and scary like it is right now.

[phe_de]

I think Wonder Woman was okay.

Good acting, good special effects, good depiction of the horrors of World War I.
The story was a typical super hero story. The origin story; then Wonder Woman doing some super-heroy stuff, and at the end, the boss fight.
Reminded me a bit of Iron Man.

All in all, it was maybe a bit long for my taste. Maybe a few less slo-mo shots would have sped up the movie.

As for the other DC movies, I liked it better than Man of Steel or Superman Returns; and what I also like is that it took itself less seriously than the Nolan Batmans.
I haven't seen Batman vs Superman or Suicide Squad.