Winter is Here

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:25 pm

Psyched for the return of GoT. Which is still somehow almost a month away. Time doesn't fly.

The second trailer for season 7 is here and, in keeping with tradition, it's about as indecipherable as every other GoT trailer ever released.

Where's the score from? Seems vaguely familiar but I can't recall.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:18 pm

The song is from the Season 6 finale and is called "Light of the Seven":

I think Game of Thrones has been up and down over the years though I mostly quite liked season 6. I'm a little concerned that like a lot of stories like this it's merely turning into the very kind of thing it set out to initially criticize, but we'll see where it goes.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:12 am

Also am I the only one that's noticed that Jaime Lannister's backstory is just straight up Return of the Jedi?

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:02 am

He killed a tyrannical ruler he was supposed to serve, but for very different reasons than Vader. I don't think that's enough to say it's "straight up Return of the Jedi," although I admit it's a similarity I've never noticed. He also had a hand chopped off, which is very Star Warsy, but that's not really part of his backstory.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:03 pm

Raxivace wrote:The song is from the Season 6 finale and is called "Light of the Seven":

How do you always know stuff like this?

Raxivace wrote:I think Game of Thrones has been up and down over the years though I mostly quite liked season 6. I'm a little concerned that like a lot of stories like this it's merely turning into the very kind of thing it set out to initially criticize, but we'll see where it goes.

Yeah, I mostly liked season 6 too, although it wasn't without fault and perhaps not on the level of the earlier seasons.

If you mean that it began as a subversive, nihilistic twist on familiar Hero's Journey tropes but now it's slowly becoming a traditional story in which good will eventually triumph over evil... I'll say that it was inevitable that the show would eventually take this kinda familiar shape, at least for a while (not many Starks left to kill), but I'll also say that I hope the show doesn't end up being as predictable and unsatisfying as Episode 9 from Season 6.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:07 pm

I never thought of the Jedi comparison either (then again, I'm not the biggest SW fan).

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:16 am

maz89 wrote:How do you always know stuff like this?

I know that particular song because I liked it when that episode aired and I made sure to grab it off of iTunes the next day.

I don't listen to a lot of contemporary music, but I have loads of music from movies, TV, games, anime etc., so I tend to be able to answer questions like this sometimes. Game of Thrones was actually pretty easy to grab the music from in this regard- one of the songs from Twin Peaks: Winter is Here And So is James that I liked isn't even on the official soundtrack, so I had to scour the internet to find out what it was.

Raxivace wrote:If you mean that it began as a subversive, nihilistic twist on familiar Hero's Journey tropes but now it's slowly becoming a traditional story in which good will eventually triumph over evil... I'll say that it was inevitable that the show would eventually take this kinda familiar shape, at least for a while (not many Starks left to kill), but I'll also say that I hope the show doesn't end up being as predictable and unsatisfying as Episode 9 from Season 6.

I liked Battle of the Bastards quite a bit, though yeah the actual ending was predictable.

I think it's a bit unfortunate that we're even talking about the show in good vs. evil terms, especially since it isn't inaccurate. As visually cool (lol) and striking the White Walkers are they're so kind of blatant in their evilness (That makes me think even the loose climate change analogy with them starts to break down) that they really do feel out of place in a show where the other major factions have relatively complex motivations.

Maybe season 7 will give them some deeper motivations, who knows. At least Dany is finally making it across the fucking sea.

BruceSmith78 wrote:He killed a tyrannical ruler he was supposed to serve, but for very different reasons than Vader. I don't think that's enough to say it's "straight up Return of the Jedi," although I admit it's a similarity I've never noticed. He also had a hand chopped off, which is very Star Warsy, but that's not really part of his backstory.

I may occasionally exaggerate for effect.

It does kind of feel like a riff on RotJ to me though- wouldn't be that out of place considering the other references in the series.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:03 pm

I listen to a lot of contemporary music, but music from movies, tv, and games(FF7 soundtrack is the greatest game soundtrack) has always struck me for some reason.

'Light of the Seven' is great, but I'm still mad they did my girl like that. She was too cunning to go out that way. Y'all know who...

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:27 am

Cassius Clay wrote:FF7 soundtrack is the greatest game soundtrack

It's definitely a part of the conversation. Even 20 years later when the 3D models have not aged as gracefully as I would have liked, the music does an insanely good job of setting the atmosphere in that game. It's a real accomplishment that doesn't quite get enough credit when people talk about FF7.

'Light of the Seven' is great, but I'm still mad they did my girl like that. She was too cunning to go out that way. Y'all know who...

At least she went out with a bang.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:13 am

She was always a step ahead...and she would have lived if not for that Bernie Sanders-looking fuck.

I hope the FF7 remake uses the exact same soundtrack.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:34 am

If Evil Bernie Sanders dropped the weird religious angle I'd support him over anyone else in King's Landing tbh.

Cassius Clay wrote:I hope the FF7 remake uses the exact same soundtrack.

It'll probably just be full remixes of the OST. Less anticipated games like the HD ports Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 and Final Fantasy 12 had their scores entirely redone by a full orchestra- you can rest assured the FF7 remake will get a similar treatment. They might have the original soundtrack in the game as some kind of bonus (FF12 HD does that), but considering how different the presentation and even general gameplay is going to be in the remake I'm not sure even that is a guarantee- it could clash with the newer aspects in a way Square doesn't want.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:24 pm

Cassius Clay wrote:She was always a step ahead...and she would have lived if not for that Bernie Sanders-looking fuck.

I rewatched the series earlier this year and it seems she didn't know her grandmother poisoned Joffrey. I previously had the impression she was in on it, but maybe that was just in the books?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:18 pm

I thought she was in on it too but I can't remember why I thought that off of the top of my head.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:50 am

Maybe because the show portrayed her as a lot more savvy and cunning than she appeared to be in the books, a protégé of her almost Littlefinger-esque grandmother.

The books are a lot more ambiguous about how much she knows about and is in on all the sinister stuff going on in King's Landing, or if it's all just paranoia on Cersei's part.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:35 pm

They did use her necklace to smuggle the poison (in the show, not the books), so I don't know how she didn't know what was going down, but there's a scene later where her grandmother point blank tells her she killed Joffrey and she's all shocked, like what?

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:07 am

I sort of remember that. I had stopped watching I think but then someone told me about that and I was like "uhhh... okay. I guess I'm glad I stopped watching."

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:21 pm

Raxivace wrote:
Cassius Clay wrote:'Light of the Seven' is great, but I'm still mad they did my girl like that. She was too cunning to go out that way. Y'all know who...
At least she went out with a bang.

Too soon, man. Too soon.

I'm still bummed about how that shit went down myself.

Loved the direction of the episode 10 opening though.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:30 pm

Raxivace wrote:I liked Battle of the Bastards quite a bit, though yeah the actual ending was predictable.

I think it's a bit unfortunate that we're even talking about the show in good vs. evil terms, especially since it isn't inaccurate. As visually cool (lol) and striking the White Walkers are they're so kind of blatant in their evilness (That makes me think even the loose climate change analogy with them starts to break down) that they really do feel out of place in a show where the other major factions have relatively complex motivations.

Maybe season 7 will give them some deeper motivations, who knows. At least Dany is finally making it across the fucking sea.

I don't know - I think the climate change analogy still holds. The 'complex' folk are so short-sighted in their conquest for power and control that they inevitably forget about the threat that will make all of their bickering irrelevant.

I have only a faint recollection of the backstory given on the White Walkers. Will need to brush up on my trivia.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:48 am

maz89 wrote:I don't know - I think the climate change analogy still holds. The 'complex' folk are so short-sighted in their conquest for power and control that they inevitably forget about the threat that will make all of their bickering irrelevant.

That part of it holds, but the actual Walkers themselves I think are the issue.

Like they're personified in the story to such a degree that they're agents in the world with their own motivations that you can physically kill if you have weapons made of a special steel. Obviously in real life we're not going to defeat climate change by stabbing the atmosphere super hard- it would require a pretty fundamental change in how humans currently function, and I don't think Game of Thrones is setting itself up to have the Walkers defeated through that kind of possibility.

IMO the Walkers either need less motivation (Perhaps being closer to something like Romero's zombies or the Kaiju in Pacific Rim (Which if you'll recall are even described using terms for tropical storms and the like)) so they're closer to being more of an allegorical force, or more motivation than just "Hey we're humans turned into some weird blue snowmen and now we'll kill you all because we have a grudge because reasons". I mean its not like Hurricanes are literally evil and out to get us for revenge.

We'll probably learn more about them in season 7 so I'm not quite bringing out my pitch forks yet, but so far I've found them kind of inscrutable in a bad way.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:28 pm

Raxivace wrote:Like they're personified in the story to such a degree that they're agents in the world with their own motivations that you can physically kill if you have weapons made of a special steel. Obviously in real life we're not going to defeat climate change by stabbing the atmosphere super hard- it would require a pretty fundamental change in how humans currently function, and I don't think Game of Thrones is setting itself up to have the Walkers defeated through that kind of possibility.

IMO the Walkers either need less motivation (Perhaps being closer to something like Romero's zombies or the Kaiju in Pacific Rim (Which if you'll recall are even described using terms for tropical storms and the like)) so they're closer to being more of an allegorical force, or more motivation than just "Hey we're humans turned into some weird blue snowmen and now we'll kill you all because we have a grudge because reasons". I mean its not like Hurricanes are literally evil and out to get us for revenge.

Phff, you underestimated how petty and vengeful Mother Nature can be.

On a serious note, I'd still argue that the 'grudges' bit makes some amount of allegorical sense - the reckless actions of humans in a distant past will catch up with them and bite them in the ass. The 'special steel' can then be interpreted as a symbol for 'enlightenment'. If enough people become enlightened like Sam or Jon of the impending doom and how to stop it, they can STILL save the planet.

Any further backstory on the White Walkers will probably just show how they were 'good' before they were wronged (and became one-dimensional villains), which will just kinda feed into the above interpretation.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 am

So...what did we all think of the S7 premiere?

I had kind of forgotten what it was like to watch this series, what with how slow the pacing kind of has to be with such a huge cast to account for.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:34 am

Arya's arc is the most interesting at this point. And how do you argue with the Hound?

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:48 am

I will say the Arya opening felt a bit redundant to me. That line they threw in about how unusual is is for them to be having another feast so soon felt pretty awkward to me too.

OTOH the segment later on with the random soldiers was pretty good.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 pm

I thought it was a solid episode. Not rushed or packed, for a change (it helps that Cersei blew up half of the storylines last season), and things feel more streamlined. I really liked the slower pacing as it allowed for some strong character moments. Favorite parts were those that showed Sandor Clegane's redemption arc, Baelish's smug grin and attempts to get inside Sansa's head, and, yes, Arya's disarming encounter with the soldiers who thankfully didn't come from hell. I also loved the wordless ending which showed Danaerys and crew enter Dragonstone for the first time and in daylight, which offered a startling kind of clarity of the usually dark, gloomy place.

I liked the cold open myself, even if it felt like it was engineered as a mandatory "fuck yeah" moment for Arya - hopefully to set the tone for the rest of the season.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:47 am

Is Ed Shireen someone I should have heard of? Apparently people are really mad that this random guy was in the episode.

maz89 wrote:I thought it was a solid episode.

Yeah it was solid overall, though I think I would have been more into it had it not aired at the same time as Twin Peaks.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:35 am

I should clarify that I don't want the rest of the season to just be a string of "fuck yeah" moments. That would be too easy and predictable and unrealistic, and GoT shouldn't ever do that (although maybe it has to, a bit, as it's now wrapping things up instead of expanding).

I'm surprised you hadn't heard of Ed Sheeran (your spelling error makes your question even funnier - esp since you've opted for the spelling of Stannis' dead daughter's name). He was a bit distracting, but I ignored the fact that he was a famous English singer. Although once I saw (and heard) him, I knew there was no way Arya was going to butcher him (I don't think he would have taken the role if it called for his immediate killing).

I watched GoT before TP. Do not judge.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:04 pm

I also had no idea who Ed Shereen was. My wife later asked me if he came out, and I remembered seeing a story about a new casting choice for the arch-maester and figured it was him. Then she was like, "no, he was supposed to be in a scene with Arya," and I thought of someone else - the dude with the big nose who did most of the talking in that scene. Later I saw all the memes and the hate and I... still have no idea who the fuck he is. I don't even remember the song he supposedly sang on the show, but in my defense, I was a bit drunk.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:14 pm

He's that "I'm in love with the shape of you" guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGwWNGJdvx8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's the most famous song in the world or whatever, I've been told.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:35 pm

Wow, I'm actually quite surprised that no one here knows Ed Sheeran. Guess it worked in your favor since you weren't distracted by the celebrity casting.

He also did "I See Fire" for the Hobbit movie. And his "A-Team" track is nice.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:06 pm

So why is no one talking about the shit that went down in this episode?

It's interesting how they aren't killing off any of the 'main' players yet. I had thought Yara was a goner.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:56 pm

Dany was too overpowered, so something had to happen to even the odds a bit. I admit, I expected Euron to try to snag Sansa or Tyrion, or even Lady Tyrell as his "gift" for Cersei. Wasn't expecting it to be the queen of Dorne. So who will be in charge of Dorne with Ellaria captured and her daughters dead or imprisoned? I'm guessing whoever it is will be willing to negotiate and form a new alliance, to make things more interesting.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:11 am

Yeah, it was all falling into place too neatly for Dany so this will help shake things up a bit. Meanwhile, can we expect some kind of showdown to occur between Sansa and Jon? Leaving Sansa in command of Winterfell and alone with Baelish is a recipe for disaster. Imagine Arya finally coming 'home' to find that the only surviving Starks are now warring with each other. I liked that cryptic sequence with Nymeria, who's changed as much as Arya has.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:40 am

Lmao Theon.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:47 am

Set-up for some kind of redemption later in the game? To be fair, while it's considered to be brave to give up your life even if you know it won't save your loved one, his decision to jump off, even if it stemmed from cowardice, has the potential of working out for everyone.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:04 pm

Consider this though: Theon's actions have led to the end of the dreaded Sand Snakes.

To hell with Dany and Yara, Theon Greyjoy is the hero Westeros needs.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:25 pm

I swear, it was like an early gift from the writers. Nothing good ever came out of Dorne (apart from Oberyn of course).

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 pm

S7E4 has leaked online. Heads up for anyone trying to avoid spoilers.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:00 pm

As it's a shitty non-HD version, I guess I'll be avoiding social media until the episode officially airs.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:50 am

Yeah fears about video quality are why I'm avoiding the episode until it properly airs.

I'll admit though that if it were the entire rest of the season that leaked I'd probably just binge the whole thing and then make up fake spoilers about Jon Snow finding an ancient Gundam among the dragonglass mine on Dragonstone and battling the White Walkers with it.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:51 am

^Ha, probably, me too.

The first part. Not the second.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:06 pm

Boy, they are really saving up on their main characters.

Although I'm glad they didn't kill off Jaime. It would make all of his scenes with Brienne in the earlier seasons feel meaningless.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:13 pm

Did the battle against Dany's dragon give anyone else massive flashbacks to Jackson's Hobbit movies?

I dunno that the scenes with Brienne would be meaningless though- I feel like Jaime always having the potential to be a force for good but being ultimately killed by his near-blind devotion to Cersei would be a reasonable conclusion to his arc.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 pm

^I guess that's actually a fair interpretation, and I would have taken solace in it if the episode had ended differently.

But I've always fancied the idea of the Kingslayer doing what he is best known for... again. And this time, also snagging the title of Kinslayer.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:27 pm

There's the theory that he'll be the one to kill the Night's King...meaning he'll have been the Kingslayer of both Ice and Fire.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:38 pm

Ha! Nice.

(Even though I'm generally against "like" buttons, if there was one on this forum, I'd have used it on your post to express my approval instead of the "Ha! Nice" I articulated just now.)

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:48 am

Wait a second so does this confirm that Littlefinger hired the assassins back in season 1?

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:12 pm

Well in the books it's strongly suggested Joffrey did it, but the show is at least hinting it was Littlefinger, although I don't think they confirmed anything. It's entirely possible that in both versions of this story Littlefinger manipulated Joffrey into hiring an amateur assassin to kill Bran.

Wait, which assassins are we talking about? The ones that tried to kill Dany were hired by Varys on Robert's behalf.

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:32 pm

Sorry, I mean the ones hired to kill Bran.

I've heard the Joffrey explanation before but by what the show depicts at least it's never made a lot of sense to me.

maz89 · Post by **maz89** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:43 am

On an unrelated note, did anyone else think that Euron Greyjoy was being played by Joshua Jackson? The resemblance is uncanny...

Raxivace · Post by **Raxivace** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:35 pm

I don't know who that is. I just assumed it was Alfie Allen from an alternative future where he did a lot of steroids.