GLOW

[Faustus5]

Has anyone checked this out yet? I have zero interest in fake wrestling and never thought I give this show a second's notice, but the reviews have been great so I thought I'd give it a chance. Absolutely loving it so far.

[maz89]

As much as I like Alison Brie, I stopped watching after the pilot.

[Cassius Clay]

It slowly gets more interesting if you stick with it.

[maz89]

So does it develop some self-awareness as it goes along? The pilot starts off with Brie's character having a hard time finding a complex, three dimensional role that does not exploit her sexuality. By the end of the episode, the show ignores all of that and plays her tragic betrayal in the form of a glamorous, sexualized wrestling contest as seen through the eyes of the male director. So is the show telling us to ridicule female on-screen objectification... but enjoy it on this show?

[Faustus5]

So does it develop some self-awareness as it goes along? The pilot starts off with Brie's character having a hard time finding a complex, three dimensional role that does not exploit her sexuality. By the end of the episode, the show ignores all of that and plays her tragic betrayal in the form of a glamorous, sexualized wrestling contest as seen through the eyes of the male director. So is the show telling us to ridicule female on-screen objectification... but enjoy it on this show?

It's complicated.She works under a sexist male director and there is an element of exploitation in the whole field of women's wrestling, but she also gets to create and develop her own character who she is creatively in charge of, a process she becomes very invested in and attached to. Same goes for the other characters. Despite the level of objectification, as a female wrestler, you are also very powerful. The two lead actresses described the feeling of wrestling for real and doing their own stunts as a kind of high they had never experienced before in their careers, and I'm sure it was the same for the real ladies of GLOW.

[Cassius Clay]

^ What Faustus said

The show is a little more self-aware and subversive than it might initially appear. That doesn't mean it doesn't have it's problems. I'm sure someone who watched it more critically than I did might break down any issues it might have. Like Faustus said, it's complicated...and, for me, it kinda reflected my own complicated relationship with wrestling. I was a huge wrestling fan as a kid, but it's strange for me because I know the fan base is largely racist rednecks - and the McMahon family are Trump supporters who have profited off racist/sexist stereotypes. Wrestling has a long history of having wrestlers of color play these really over-the-top, racist stereotypes...and these characters are made to play "heel" facing off against some white, American hero. The show deals with issues like that and explores, with humor, how the real people behind the scenes dealt with some of these types of challenges. By the end I walked away feeling the characters were more humanized(and given agency) than objectified.

Plus its set in the 80s and I just like 80s shit. Lately, they've been coming out with more and more shows set in the 80s(Halt and Catch Fire, Stranger Things, Glow, that black mirror episode). If the 80s make a comeback, just remember that I was down with this 80s shit before it became cool again.

[Raxivace]

If the 80's make a comeback? 80's nostalgia has been in full force since like 1998. Frankly I'm ready for it to finally end.

[maz89]

No Raxi, the 80s nostalgia should NEVER end. I'm looking forward to season 2 of Stranger Things, if only for that 80s vibe/sound.

Anyway, I might check out a few more episodes. There's just a very thin line between the thing it is vs the thing it's mocking, but I'll see how it plays out, thanks to the goodwill generated by Alison Brie from her days in Community. Speaking of Community, there's another comedy/drama show on Netflix, Love, starring another Community actress, Gillian Jacobs. For the most part, I think it accomplishes what it sets out to do.

[Raxivace]

No Raxi, the 80s nostalgia should NEVER end.

It's lasted at least twice as long as the actual 80's did at this point. It might not ever actually end, even if Gen X finally dies out.

[Faustus5]

Wrestling has a long history of having wrestlers of color play these really over-the-top, racist stereotypes...and these characters are made to play "heel" facing off against some white, American hero. The show deals with issues like that and explores, with humor, how the real people behind the scenes dealt with some of these types of challenges.

I never followed wrestling at any time and knew nothing about this aspect of it, so I was a bit shocked (though I shouldn't have been) when it popped up in the show. I'm glad they took the issue head on instead of shying away from it.

[Cassius Clay]

Yeah, I haven't watched wrestling in a while but I don't think the crude stereotypes are as racist as they were way back. They still have really cheesy stereotype characters - I think in recent years there's been a stereotypical Irish wrestler named Sheamus, and one of my favorite wrestlers when I was a kid was The British Bulldog. So not all the stereotypes are necessarily racist/offensive but many of them are.

I vaguely remember even "The Rock" in the early stages of his 'Rock' character('cause he had a few before that one) was made to be part of some kind of radical black-empowerment group called the "Nation of Domination" who were, of course, the baddies.

[Cassius Clay]

No Raxi, the 80s nostalgia should NEVER end. I'm looking forward to season 2 of Stranger Things, if only for that 80s vibe/sound.

Anyway, I might check out a few more episodes. There's just a very thin line between the thing it is vs the thing it's mocking, but I'll see how it plays out, thanks to the goodwill generated by Alison Brie from her days in Community. Speaking of Community, there's another comedy/drama show on Netflix, Love, starring another Community actress, Gillian Jacobs. For the most part, I think it accomplishes what it sets out to do.

Gillian Jacobs seems cool from interviews I've seen and her appearances on comedy bang bang podcasts. Community is one of those really good shows with a very devoted fanbase that nobody else seems to give a shit about.

[Cassius Clay]

If the 80's make a comeback? 80's nostalgia has been in full force since like 1998. Frankly I'm ready for it to finally end.

I'm a 90s kid born in the 80s(an old "millenial"), so my nostalgia for the 80s isn't even from directly living it and wanting to go back. I just appreciate the vibe/aesthetic for some reason.

And what is dead may never die.

[CashRules]

Just a word from someone who was a huge wrestling fan up until the mid to late 80s when Vince McMahon destroyed everything good about the "sport" by succeeding in taking it corporate - the stereotypical black wrestlers as the bad guys is a definite thing, especially in the last 25 to 30 years. However, from the earliest days of pro wrestling as an exhibition rather than a true sport up until the early 70s, the situation was somewhat different, although it was still rooted in racism. For decades black wrestlers were not even allowed to be the heels (bad guys) unless wrestling against other black wrestlers because promoters were afraid of their racist majority white audiences rioting against the "evil black man" beating up on the white hero. So black wrestlers were forced to portray these stereotypical babyface (good guy) characters who were basically suckups to the white promoters even if a particular black wrestler's own skills were much more suited to being the heel.

One of the most notable to complain about this was Ernie "The Big Cat" Ladd who insisted for years that he would be much better and draw the promotion much more money if he were allowed to be the heel regardless of whether his opponent was white, black, Native American, Asian or whatever. This was at a time when the race of wrestlers most likely to be the heels were Asians who would often portray evil Japanese imperialist characters and were often teamed up with fake Germans portraying Nazi characters for two decades after WWII had ended when the Nazi/Imperialist gimmick gave way to the Commie gimmick. For some reason, Canadians often got chosen to play evil Russians as well as characters billed as being from other Communist nations, with two of the most notable being Ivan Koloff (The Russian Bear, real name Jim Perras) and Archie Gouldie (The Mongolian Stomper), both Canadians. Ernie Ladd would tell promoters he didn't want to beat up on fake Russians and be cheered, he wanted to beat up on the fucking rednecks and be the most hated man in wrestling. Promoters finally relented and Ladd was almost immediately elevated from mid-card to main event status and the rednecks paid millions for the opportunity to boo him. He was that damn good at being bad. Ladd also seemed to enjoy beating up on Wahoo McDaniel, a real Native American and Jay Strongbow, a fake Native American (real name Joe Scarpa, 100% Italian) as well as a host of fellow black wrestlers. Basically, Ernie Ladd just wanted to beat up somebody. As hated as he was by fans, everybody who ever knew Ernie Ladd personally said he was one of the nicest people who ever lived but he would still beat the hell out of anybody who stepped in the ring against him because he really didn't care that wrestling was scripted. Even if he was scheduled to lose a match, the winner wasn't going to walk away feeling like a winner. Ladd's actual talent in the ring was somewhat limited, other than brawling, though nowhere near as limited as such untalented hacks as Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior, but he more than made up for it with his interview skills and his ability to piss off everybody just by talking.

The exact opposite of Ernie Ladd was Sonny King, another black wrestler who was allowed to be a heel once Ladd opened the door. Sonny King never had a decent interview but promoters liked to hire him because he was a genuine skilled shooter. If somebody was suspected of exposing the scripted nature of wrestling or of not going along with that scripted nature and trying to win matches they were supposed to lose, they were placed in a non-scripted shoot match with Sonny King and learned their lesson within 20 seconds of the opening bell. The words "wrapped up like a pretzel" applied to anybody who had the misfortune of being placed in a shoot match against Sonny King.

Unfortunately, due to the racism inherent in pro wrestling, neither Ladd nor King was ever allowed to hold any of the recognized World Heavyweight titles at the time (NWA, AWA, WWF).

[Faustus5]

Gillian Jacobs seems cool from interviews I've seen and her appearances on comedy bang bang podcasts. Community is one of those really good shows with a very devoted fanbase that nobody else seems to give a shit about.

I just started on Community and I love it.

[Cassius Clay]

Interesting to hear that black wrestlers were not even allowed to be heels in the really early days. That's way before my time.

[maz89]

Gillian Jacobs seems cool from interviews I've seen and her appearances on comedy bang bang podcasts. Community is one of those really good shows with a very devoted fanbase that nobody else seems to give a shit about.

I just started on Community and I love it.

Six seasons and a movie!

[CashRules]

Interesting to hear that black wrestlers were not even allowed to be heels in the really early days. That's way before my time.

Get off my lawn!

[Cassius Clay]