Raxivace's 2018 List of Movies or (Neo-General Chat: The Second Raid)

[Raxivace]

It's innovative because of how cinematic it is and how creatively it uses player input to control the intriguing story.

Now hold on a second here, I may not have played it but cinematic video games existed long before Heavy Rain- at least since the original Resident Evil came out in 1996 (And it arguably kicked off a whole trend of games being praised for being cinematic in the mid-to-late 90's: Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 7, Metal Gear Solid, Shenmue, Silent Hill etc.) and I'm sure there are older examples we could dig up and point to.

[maz89]

While all those games certainly have cinematic qualities, HR is the game that raised the bar on cinematic immersion for me. Let me clarify what I mean. Those games still fit a typical mold in terms of gameplay. For example, there are skills and combat strategies to be learned, special weapons to be obtained, and new bad guys to be killed. Rinse and repeat, i.e. as you progress in the game, the skills become cooler, the weapons become stronger, and the bad guys get more tough to beat. On the other hand, HR strips away all of that complexity (if I may call it that) so you can focus purely on the story, visuals, score, mood, etc - the things that we appreciate in cinema. HR is literally like a movie that's been converted into an interactive hi-res game - and one that offers multiple endings based on how you see fit to tell the story. One could argue the gameplay in HR (and Detroit for that matter), then, is compromised, and that may be true (many dislike the button mashing required during the quick-time events), but the upshot is obvious: when you aren't thinking about how to manage your health bar or inventory, you're more focused on the plot and the immediate decisions that will affect your characters. In fact, Rax, you know what I'm talking about here, as a fellow fan of Telltale's Walking Dead. I do think recent AAA games like Witcher 3 and Last of Us are incredibly cinematic too, even if they fit a typical mold, but the experience they offer is quite different from the "cinematic immersion" HR and DBH are going for. Edit: to quote a personal favorite from your own list, SH is immersive as hell because of the disturbing, tense mood it sustains throughout the game, a result of the gameplay and "cinematic" environment design. That's what makes the game a masterpiece. The other traditionally cinematic qualities (plot, characters, etc) are ancillary. HR's immersion comes from focusing on all cinematic qualities - arguably at the expense of gameplay.

FWIW, I don't think Cage's team has produced a masterpiece yet as the writing in the games sometimes lacks the subtlety required (in fact, I agree with the criticisms about some of the hamfisted plot points in one of the arcs in DBH), but despite that, every now and then, it also makes you step back and think and feel, and that is when the experience becomes rewarding.

[Raxivace]

HR is literally like a movie that's been converted into an interactive hi-res game - and one that offers multiple endings based on how you see fit to tell the story.

I think I understand what you're saying better now (Your definition of "cinematic" seems different than mine in the context of games though), but what you're describing still isn't a new thing video games. The idea that this is "innovative" and not part of a relatively long tradition of other story focused games (Containing everything from western adventure games like Myst to Japanese visual novels) is what I'm harping on.

upshot is obvious: when you aren't thinking about how to manage your health bar or inventory, you're more focused on the plot and the immediate decisions that will affect your characters.

If you're managing inventory or health or whatever, that's making decisions that affects your character, no?

I don't really find one method makes me inherently more or less invested in a character. They're different methods, sure, but I don't find one more or less valid than the other.

Edit: to quote a personal favorite from your own list, SH is immersive as hell because of the disturbing, tense mood it sustains throughout the game, a result of the gameplay and "cinematic" environment design. That's what makes the game a masterpiece. The other traditionally cinematic qualities (plot, characters, etc) are ancillary.

I would say "plot" and "characters" are inherently literary features (If we have to attach them to any particular form of art at all), and I think Silent Hill has a perfectly fine (Albeit simple) plot. I obviously don't disagree about its environmental design being top notch, but I would also argue its a reflection of the psychology of the daughter character in that game, her fears given form. I.e. as a little child she's scared of hospitals, so the hospitals of the town because terrifying hellholes that Harry Mason must journey through, nurses become demonic creatures etc. That's providing characterization in addition to just being scary.

Silent Hill 2 (And I suspect I'll say the same about 3 overall once I'm done with it) executed this idea better (And thematically responds to the first game) by making its story more psychodramatic while the original game was focused more on the "knight saves the princess from the tower" story at its core, but the basis is certainly there in that first game.

[Raxivace]

For the sake settling this once and for all at some point, I will play Heavy Rain eventually.

[maz89]

HR is literally like a movie that's been converted into an interactive hi-res game - and one that offers multiple endings based on how you see fit to tell the story.

I think I understand what you're saying better now (Your definition of "cinematic" seems different than mine in the context of games though), but what you're describing still isn't a new thing video games. The idea that this is "innovative" and not part of a relatively long tradition of other story focused games (Containing everything from western adventure games like Myst to Japanese visual novels) is what I'm harping on.

Well, it can be innovative and still be part of a long tradition of other story focused games. ;) The two things are not mutually exclusive. I think you said it yourself - you need to play the game! If you can point me to a similar "interactive movie" game like HR that preceded it, I'd be happy to take a look and admit that HR didn't innovate but simply borrowed. ;) I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about HR. And DBH too, for that matter. I'm not sure why you haven't played them already as you generally seem to like games of this type.

If you're managing inventory or health or whatever, that's making decisions that affects your character, no?

Fair point, I should have stopped with "plot" there.

I don't really find one method makes me inherently more or less invested in a character. They're different methods, sure, but I don't find one more or less valid than the other.

Agreed. It's not so much about what is more valid or better, it's just about appreciating a different take. Like I said, I consider neither of the two games that Quantum Dream put out to be masterpieces but there were some outstanding sequences in them.

I would say "plot" and "characters" are inherently literary features (If we have to attach them to any particular form of art at all),

Sure, yes, literary features that are also associated with mainstream cinema.

I think Silent Hill has a perfectly fine (Albeit simple) plot. I obviously don't disagree about its environmental design being top notch, but I would also argue its a reflection of the psychology of the daughter character in that game, her fears given form. I.e. as a little child she's scared of hospitals, so the hospitals of the town because terrifying hellholes that Harry Mason must journey through, nurses become demonic creatures etc. That's providing characterization in addition to just being scary.

Sure, but that thematic depth, stemming from the game's impeccable design, is still understated, in a sense. At the forefront, you're still mostly navigating through a terrifying environment, with a third person view. When I called HR "cinematic", I literally meant it resembled a movie. It's full of those movie-like cut-scenes (often controllable by the player), and camera position and movement is "directed" during many parts of the game. Yes, there's a free-floating camera offering the third person view in the sequences that require you to look around for clues, but the game's design doesn't let you veer too far from the story it is telling and so there's not much in the way of true open-world exploration (like SH). The game's "visuals" - and the player - are being directed throughout, and the player has control over only one thing: how the story progresses. Like I said, before HR, I hadn't ever seen a murder mystery executed on a video game in that way, with that level of cinematic detail, before.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Oooh, look what I started! My only contribution to this recent discussion: I'm not sure I'd call SH's plot "simple," thought it kinda depends on precisely what we're talking about. If we're just talking about what happens in the game with Harry hunting for his daughter, then perhaps; but the details of the story, the rather subtle way it and the history is laid out with clues and allusions while avoiding much direct exposition, is quite complex. It hints at far more than what's told explicitly. It's why there are rather huge documents out there discussing the story and just what the hell's going on.

FWIW, I think I'm going to make Witcher 3 my next game since you both seem to recommend it. Any tips or things I should know before getting started?

If film watching requires energy, you're doing it wrong. ;)

Too many distractions at home for so many years now. I feel like a middle aged parent most of the time these days...

Ah, I gotcha.

If there's anything you want to know about the game just ask. I'm about through with my 4th playthrough so I pretty much know it inside and out now. FWIW, I'm back into gaming for now. If I get back into film and literature I may end up selling everything again... in fact, I kinda planned on selling it around Christmas anyway, which would give me enough time to play all the DLC and then be done with it. But I enjoyed it so much I thought I might catch up on some other titles. We'll see what happens over the next few months.

Where do you land on "puddlegate"? That's the only thing I know about the game.

I did read about that and am rather astonished it's even a thing. Frankly, what compelled me to buy the game and system was, in large part, how amazing it looked. So if what I watched/played is a "downgraded" version then I can't seem to care. FWIW, during my last playthrough I noticed plenty of large puddles at various points in the game, so I'm inclined to believe that they just moved them around rather than downgraded anything.

From your list, the bolded ones are the ones I've heard of. Believe it or not, in all my gaming years I never played a Final Fantasy game.

Huh, I could have sworn you said you played FF6 at some point.

Actually, come to think of it, I might've rented it when it was FFIII on SNES, but it's definitely one I didn't finish. In fact, I can count the number of RPGs I've finished on one hand: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Super Mario RPG, Deus Ex, and Pokemon Blue/Red.

I bought VII because of all the hype but never got around to it. I also noticed they have an HD remaster of X and X-2, and XII on PS4; any of them worth it?

I liked X a lot, but it suffers a bit from early 2000's English video game voice acting (And no option for the Japanese dub even on the PS4 release). I don't think X-2 had quite as good of a story, but its probably my favorite version of the traditional ATB battle system.

XII I used to like okay but I really soured on it from playing the PS4 version. Here's what I wrote about it last year.

I guess I'll make XV the priority then.

FWIW, my anti-open world thing was only in relation to a GTA-like games (which Spider-Man definitely borrows from), not full-blown RPGs. The Witcher definitely sounds interesting, especially with maz's high rec too. If you had to narrow it down to one, what do you think I should definitely play next?

Since I played Witcher 3 earlier this year you would get more discussion out of here if you played it next. The thing that gets me about the game though is that I think it peaks 20 hours in, and the next 100 or so hours after that vary wildly in quality while never reaching the heights of the beginning again (Maz disagrees with me here I think).

FF15 I did like a lot though. It has a very "chillaxing road trip with your bros" tone that was very unusual for Final Fantasy, and its basic aesthetic being "American midwest meets FF-style medieval retrofuturism" just feels insanely specific to my tastes. Like if that movie Nebraska was also crossed with, well, Final Fantasy games lol.

One thing about both of these games is that they made for two of the better of Conan's Clueless Gamer episodes:


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJFbsQBvLw&t=318s[/youtube]

I remember nothing about these given I saw them as a kid, back when the entire appeal was just blood and guts and scares. It's funny reading these mature, critical takes on films I enjoyed on such a simple, base level decades ago! :D

Somehow I feel you're trying to trick me when you describe some throwaway posts I made at like 2 AM as "mature", as if you're buttering me up before trying to sell me a timeshare lmao.

LOL, I just mean the entire notion of reading these films as, eg, anti-abortion propaganda, which would never have occurred to my "awesomehekilledhimanditwassofuckingbloody" child-self. :)

If you think Taipei Story is so rich that you haven't scratched the surface, I can't wait to hear what you think of ABSD; it's perhaps the richest, most novel-esque film I've ever seen.

Part of me wonders if my own lack of experience with this kind of Asian arthouse cinema isn't causing me to overpraise it a bit, but I did definitely enjoy the movie a lot and greatly looking forward to whenever I can hop into some alternate dimension where time has ceased to flow and I could watch all of A Brighter Summer Day in peace.

Well, either Taipei Story is on the level of Yi Yi and ABSD and it deserves all the praise you've given it, or it's a lesser film and you're going to be truly blown away by Yi Yi and ABSD. Either way, you win. :)

Also, FWIW, Yang is perhaps the least art-housey of the Taiwanese New Wave. While he is big on technique and themes, he thoroughly filters it through his characters and stories. He's not nearly as artsy/weird as Tsai Ming-liang, and Hou is usually much more minimal story/character wise. Yang is definitely the most accessible of that trio.

Never saw this one, but your review is hilarious. It's rather disappointing to hear that Minelli made something so awful. His Meet Me in St. Louis is one of my favorite films, and An American in Paris is dope too. Worse than Gentleman's Agreement, though? I find that hard to swallow...

As bad as Gentleman's Agreement is, I at least find its heart in the right place and can more or less intuitively understand how and why it ended up as didactic as it did.

Gigi just baffles me with the way it is considering the talent involved, and stuff like that song I posted make me wonder where the hell exactly it was coming from to begin with.

It could've just been one of those "legacy" Oscars. The kind of thing where they've ignored a filmmaker and genre for so long that they finally decide to make up for it by heaping praise on a later effort. They did the same thing with, eg, Scorsese and The Departed.

I will say in Civil War's defense that it was a condensing of an arch in Marvel Comics that ran for over 100 issues across various titles. It would be nearly impossible to turn that into a feature film and have it be fully coherent.

I mean, as a movie all that Civil War really needed to do was make a satisfying narrative out of "Former allies fight over irreconcilable political differences". They almost even set the stakes up with the setup about the Avengers causing collateral damage in their battles and the need to curtail that, but the potential solution the Accords themselves provide aren't really clear to me which muddies, you know, the actual Civil War of the title.

I realize I'm saying "All they had to do to make the movie good was make a good movie lol" to some extent, but I don't think you really need any high degree of fidelity to hundreds of comics of source material to make the core idea work.

I think part of what made the Civil War arc so compelling (at least, from what I've heard; I haven't read it) is how complex and nuanced it was and how it drew in every Marvel character with such a diverse range of opinions and perspectives, so it was one of the first superhero comics to really mimic how political issues affect people in real life. I just don't think there was any way to do justice to that in the film, so instead they boiled it down to a dispute between the two lead heroes with everyone else taking sides and didn't really go into the actual issue itself. It was a rather binary, simplified, even vaguely defined take on what in the comics was a multi-faceted affair.

I will say that I was a pretty unabashed fan of the film and I thought that whatever flaws it probably had were dwarfed by its sheer sense of scale and momentum. It just caught me up in its riptide and didn't let go. I might notice more of the flaws you point out if I revisited it, but, TBH, stuff like incoherent editing is something I pretty much expect in action blockbusters these days, even though I know there are rare exceptions like Fury Road.

I expect those flaws too, I'm just disappointed the expectation exists.

Look, we need to revive the studio system of the Golden Age of Hollywood. That's the only solution here.

Preach it, brother Rax!

It was basically the first "poetic realism" film, and it had a huge influence on French films of the 30s and 40s.

Yeah even though I've read this before, I haven't seen very many pre-New Wave French films at all myself and that admittedly hurts my ability to appreciate or even properly contextualize something like L'Atalante. The version I watched wasn't on Criterion blu-ray, which would certainly only help the film too.

One thing you might find interesting about poetic realism is that some of those films were forerunners of noir, especially Pepe le Moko and Port of Shadows. Noir could even be seen as Poetic Realism applied to the hardboiled/crime genre with some German Expressionism thrown in. I'm also really fond of Carne's Daybreak and Children of Paradise (latter is often called the French Gone With the Wind; and it's truly excellent), and Renoir's La Bete humaine and The Grand Illusion.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Either of you played a game called Hard Rain? I don't remember how I heard about it, but it's another game I know was immensely praised for its story/characters. It's one I considered watching a YouTube playthrough but I never got around to it. Skyrim is another I've heard a lot of great stuff about...

Skyrim is fantastic - it's an even bigger game than Witcher 3. I put in about 100 hours into Skyrim late last year and then went on a break, my guess there's still at least another 150 hours of game left, including the DLCs... Been trying to get back to it since. I wouldn't say I got bored, just that other more pressing things came in the way and then I decided to check out other games because of their shorter length. The gameplay is really rewarding and smartly constructed offering a variety of skills/techniques (the way RPGs typically do), and the story was gripping too, although I can only remember it faintly atm (it's been a year).

As Rax noted, while Heavy Rain was lauded for being innovative on release, it has since received somewhat polarizing reviews, with many criticizing its script or performances. I, on the other hand, still think it holds up quite nicely today. It's innovative because of how cinematic it is and how creatively it uses player input to control the intriguing story. I don't think I'd played a game like it before. OK, so the script and performances may not be on par with what some of the best films of its kind have to offer, but they were hardly bland or dull. If you compare every film noir you see with The Third Man, you're bound to walk away disappointed, right? Especially considering Third Man wasn't designed to be an interactive, player-controlled movie.

Btw, Detroit Become Human is created by the same guy/studio (David Cage/Quantum Dream) that made HR and it's also pretty solid for its take on the 'machines gain consciousness' trope. I'd say one of the three characters/arcs is indeed a bit bland and lacking much in the way of nuance, but the game still packs a punch overall. It's just a really well-made sci-fi thriller, and if you're impressed with the graphical quality of Heavy Rain, your jaw will drop when you play Detroit (assuming you have a 4K TV and HDR - I know you have the screen size already). It's also a shorter game (12 hours) so it won't put a dent in your schedule.

HR is an 8/10 for me, even from a pure story/psychological thriller perspective. Detroit I'd say hovers around a 7.

I think the biggest critique of David Cage's games that I can agree with is that many of the decisions you make don't always have a huge impact on how the story progresses. This makes replays, in particular, a tiresome process. This is why I could never get around to re-playing Detroit or Heavy Rain - although, to be fair, I've seen a friend of mine play Detroit to death so I think I know most of the possible endings and they are all well-developed.

Awesome, thanks for the detailed response/review. As I mentioned above, I'm going to make Witcher 3 my next game and then I'll see where I go from there. I'll definitely keep Heavy Rain, Skyrim, and Detroit in mind for later (I do have a 4K TV with HDR; Spider-Man looked awesome on it!).

[maz89]

Oooh, look what I started!

And we thank you. Every once in a while, we need you to come in and stir the pot, clearly.

Oooh, look what I started! My only contribution to this recent discussion: I'm not sure I'd call SH's plot "simple," thought it kinda depends on precisely what we're talking about. If we're just talking about what happens in the game with Harry hunting for his daughter, then perhaps; but the details of the story, the rather subtle way it and the history is laid out with clues and allusions while avoiding much direct exposition, is quite complex. It hints at far more than what's told explicitly. It's why there are rather huge documents out there discussing the story and just what the hell's going on.

Oh yeah, definitely meant it in that sense. SH's subtle approach in rendering those details (ie through the gameplay and level design itself with clues sprinkled throughout), while avoiding the use of its characters for discussing the game's themes openly, is part of what makes SH a masterpiece. Quantum Dream's games, while more traditionally cinematic and featuring compelling stories, have the unfortunate tendency to sometimes spell out the deeper meaning of what's going on, leaving little to the imagination. In a way, this mirrors the arthouse vs mainstream debate.

FWIW, I think I'm going to make Witcher 3 my next game since you both seem to recommend it. Any tips or things I should know before getting started?

A fine choice, good sir. I think the gameplay itself is intuitive so it shouldn't pose too much difficulty as the game introduces you to all of the mechanics at a comfortable pacing (IIRC, make sure you invest in Quen, a magical spell that grants a one-hit-proof shield). If you want to make use of the full range of the game's (ridiculously fun) combat system, I suggest you play on the maximum difficulty. The game might be a little challenging in the beginning, but once you figure out how parrying and dodging work and you start investing in your skills and figure out how alchemy/smithing works, you'll realize (... or I realized) fighting the tougher guys is way more rewarding when you have to strategize before you attack rather than when you just take a blindly-grind-them-until-they-drop approach (which I think is what the easier difficulty allows you to do). Also important: you'll be introduced to the in-game card game named Gwent early on in the game. Pay attention to the rules and keep practicing with the people you meet with to win the good cards. It unlocks the non-violent option in some quests, and, more importantly, once you get the hang of it, it's a shit load of fun and very satisfying too.

As far as the Witcher lore and history goes, this is a good place to start for a non-spoiler summary that gives you the broad strokes. You can come back to it while you play the game if it's too much to take in in one go. While the events in W2 are interesting to read about, I don't think they have a huge impact on the events of W3. To elaborate, once you progress through the first "part" of the game, you'll be asked a series of questions about what happened during the events of Witcher 2. It is then you decide how you would have played W2 if you had played it. But whatever you choose, it won't affect the ending you get or, heck, even the minor plot points in W3. At the most, you unlock certain dialogues or a side mission in which you meet with a character you decided not to kill in the previous game.

[Raxivace]

Gwent is honestly one of the higher points of Witcher 3 IMHO. Even when I thought the story wasn't working and the combat had worn out its welcome, I was enjoying Gwent.

The only thing I'd really add to what Maz said is that the game is fairly easy even on the highest difficulty for the most part as long as you're fighting enemies around your level. The alchemy system in the game exists to provide you buffs, and the only time I even used it was a a few battles at the very beginning of the game, and then, like, the last boss of the second DLC. Maybe like one or two battles in between there.

Honestly I found the battle system to be fairly inconsistent and glitchy but the PS4 version got a stability patch the week after I finished playing the game so . I'm not quite sure how it handles now.

[maz89]

I think your hand-eye coordination is much better than mine because I definitely relied on a constant supply of potions to help me during the game lol.

[Raxivace]

I probably would have used potions more if Quen wasn't so good. If you're regularly upgrading Quen there's few things in the game that will pose a major threat.

[Raxivace]

Well, it can be innovative and still be part of a long tradition of other story focused games. ;) The two things are not mutually exclusive. I think you said it yourself - you need to play the game! If you can point me to a similar "interactive movie" game like HR that preceded it, I'd be happy to take a look and admit that HR didn't innovate but simply borrowed. ;) I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about HR. And DBH too, for that matter. I'm not sure why you haven't played them already as you generally seem to like games of this type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game There's a whole Wikipedia page of games of this type and their history...

I thought about playing HR at one point but skipped out based on some bad word of mouth I heard. Same reason I ignored DBH and David Cage's other stuff in general.

Sure, yes, literary features that are also associated with mainstream cinema.

They are, but that doesn't make "plot" and "characters" inherently cinematic since they're not an inherent part of the form in the way that cinematography or mise-en-scene or editing are IMHO.

I realize I'm being pedantic about this lol.

It's full of those movie-like cut-scenes (often controllable by the player), and camera position and movement is "directed" during many parts of the game. Yes, there's a free-floating camera offering the third person view in the sequences that require you to look around for clues, but the game's design doesn't let you veer too far from the story it is telling

I'd say all of this equally applies to Silent Hill tbh.

and so there's not much in the way of true open-world exploration (like SH).

This is a difference, but Silent Hill's open world is still ultimately tunneling you to specific locations through items you find, hints and puzzles, through information received in cutscenes etc. As in all video games, freedom and decisions are just an illusion. The "open world" is still ultimately a closed, guided space...just a very big space too.

IOW its very much directing the player too, if I'm understand what you mean by that.

[Raxivace]

Oooh, look what I started! My only contribution to this recent discussion: I'm not sure I'd call SH's plot "simple," thought it kinda depends on precisely what we're talking about. If we're just talking about what happens in the game with Harry hunting for his daughter, then perhaps;

For clarity's sake, I very much subscribe to the notion that plot is the literal sequential events that happen in a narrative (I.e. Harry searches for his missing daughter, battles monsters, finds her at the end of the game etc.), while story covers more or less everything else (What you call the "details of the story").

I did read about that and am rather astonished it's even a thing. Frankly, what compelled me to buy the game and system was, in large part, how amazing it looked. So if what I watched/played is a "downgraded" version then I can't seem to care. FWIW, during my last playthrough I noticed plenty of large puddles at various points in the game, so I'm inclined to believe that they just moved them around rather than downgraded anything.

I just found the whole controversy goofy. I'm pretty cynical about "gamers" as a subculture lately and stuff like Puddegate, as silly as it is, is just another thing in a long line for me to point to.

In fact, I can count the number of RPGs I've finished on one hand: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Super Mario RPG, Deus Ex, and Pokemon Blue/Red.

I haven't played Deus Ex, but otherwise Xenogears is very much the odd man out here to me considering how long it is relative to these other games. This is what I wrote about it back in the old days of IMDb when I was finishing the game.

The thing when it comes to Xenogears is that it's a 90's JRPG. It's everything good and bad from that genre at that time.

The plot and characters themselves seem great. But god damn if you want to understand it, you pretty much have to play nothing but it just to keep things memorized. There's just so many military factions, ancient conspiracies, masked characters with vague identities running around etc. that it can be hard to jump back into if you put the game down for a month or two. You also have to know how all of these things are related, and its just kind of a behemoth task on its own to know while also worrying about keeping your characters stats managed, your mechs properly upgraded, and all that other kind of nerdy JRPG stuff.

The gameplay and whatnot isn't bad, it's just very 90's Squaresoft JRPG. The dungeons are a little long, the combat not exactly super complex (Though it's slightly moreso than other Square games at the time, but at the end of the day you're just spamming what does the highest damage), the music is fantastic and atmospheric, but ugh that text is slow.

The thing about the text is that it moves at the speed of realistic talking. If you're a relatively quick reader, it's torturous. Also I can't stress enough how long the game is. I'm 45 hours into the game, and am still on Disc 1.

There are production issues too from what I understand, such as the budget being cut apparently for the second disc, the game having a single translator etc. I haven't noticed any "This guy are sick" level screwups yet, but Xenogears has some weird translation issues when it comes to its own mythology apparently. I have no idea personally how terms like "Surface Dweller <Lamb>" are meant to be read aloud.

I just can't help but thing that if it were adapted into an anime, or even just had an HD re-release that sped up the *beep* text, it would be so much easier to just sit down and play. I love the game so far, don't get me wrong, but it is VERY much a product of its era. And while I love it for being so ambitious, it really does work against itself at times.

I should probably rewrite this at some point.

I suppose that contradicts what I just told maz a bit in regards to characters as gameplay vs. characters as story elements but Xenogears is still far more convoluted almost every other game I've played. It's like half as long as something like Witcher 3 and maybe four or five times as dense with what's going on.

Btw Kuribo said he's thinking about playing Xenogears here soon. I know he's been playing a lot of that game's spiritual successors like Xenoblade recently.

Chrono Trigger is great. Haven't played Super Mario RPG or Pokemon Red/Blue in a long long time but I have a lot of nostalgia for them. I suspect Red/Blue don't hold up well mechanically compared to newer Pokemon games (Though the last one I played was White), but I often wonder how SMRPG is to play today.

]I guess I'll make XV the priority then.

The thing about XV is that Square has really doubled down on the whole "multimedia experience" thing with XV. There's a prequel movie (Featuring Sean Bean, Lena Heady, and Aaron Paul of all people, all of whom get to read goofy Final Fantasy dialogue), a prequel anime OVA (Which is probably a little better than the actual movie tbh), the game itself, and there's been a lot of DLC for the game in the works since the base game has come out. 3 story DLC have already come out (Plus a multiplayer expansion), while there's 4 more story DLC in the works.

One thing about both of these games is that they made for two of the better of Conan's Clueless Gamer episodes

Ha, I'll have to check these out later.

LOL, I just mean the entire notion of reading these films as, eg, anti-abortion propaganda, which would never have occurred to my "awesomehekilledhimanditwassofuckingbloody" child-self. :)

I see lol. It's just interesting to me to see different films in the same franchise have such different political subtexts.

Well, either Taipei Story is on the level of Yi Yi and ABSD and it deserves all the praise you've given it, or it's a lesser film and you're going to be truly blown away by Yi Yi and ABSD. Either way, you win. :)

We shall see...

Also, FWIW, Yang is perhaps the least art-housey of the Taiwanese New Wave. While he is big on technique and themes, he thoroughly filters it through his characters and stories. He's not nearly as artsy/weird as Tsai Ming-liang, and Hou is usually much more minimal story/character wise. Yang is definitely the most accessible of that trio.

Yeah I'm definitely interested in checking more out at some point. It would be great to expand my horizons some more.

It could've just been one of those "legacy" Oscars. The kind of thing where they've ignored a filmmaker and genre for so long that they finally decide to make up for it by heaping praise on a later effort. They did the same thing with, eg, Scorsese and The Departed.

Maybe. Gigi came out a few years after An American in Paris did, and the latter that did win Best Picture and several other awards...Minelli didn't get Best Director (Though he was nominated at least).

I think part of what made the Civil War arc so compelling (at least, from what I've heard; I haven't read it) is how complex and nuanced it was and how it drew in every Marvel character with such a diverse range of opinions and perspectives, so it was one of the first superhero comics to really mimic how political issues affect people in real life. I just don't think there was any way to do justice to that in the film, so instead they boiled it down to a dispute between the two lead heroes with everyone else taking sides and didn't really go into the actual issue itself. It was a rather binary, simplified, even vaguely defined take on what in the comics was a multi-faceted affair.

Yeah I've heard that about the comics, I just still think they could have made it a little more complex in the film without totally going overboard.

Like I'm not asking for David Simon-esque tediousness here. Or Godard style pontificating.

Actually I changed my mind, Godard should have directed Captain America: Civil War. We could have the big airport battle intercut with like, Matthew Brady photographs or something.

Preach it, brother Rax!

John Ford died for our sins (And was rather grouchy while doing it. Probably.)!

One thing you might find interesting about poetic realism is that some of those films were forerunners of noir, especially Pepe le Moko and Port of Shadows. Noir could even be seen as Poetic Realism applied to the hardboiled/crime genre with some German Expressionism thrown in. I'm also really fond of Carne's Daybreak and Children of Paradise (latter is often called the French Gone With the Wind; and it's truly excellent), and Renoir's La Bete humaine and The Grand Illusion.

Yeah a lot of this is sounding familiar from when I was studying noir back in the day. Of that list I've seen Grand Illusion though wasn't super into it, though I did like A Day in the Country, Renoir's version of Lower Depths, and Rules of the Game.

Other than those and the Vigo films I don't think I've seen any other 30's French films. I'd have to double check to be sure.

[Raxivace]

BTW Maz, do you have an opinion on this thing with Rock Star and supposed "100 hour work weeks"?

I see no reason not to take the dev's attempt at clarification at their word but a lot of people I know online think they're lying.

[maz89]

Well, it can be innovative and still be part of a long tradition of other story focused games. ;) The two things are not mutually exclusive. I think you said it yourself - you need to play the game! If you can point me to a similar "interactive movie" game like HR that preceded it, I'd be happy to take a look and admit that HR didn't innovate but simply borrowed. ;) I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about HR. And DBH too, for that matter. I'm not sure why you haven't played them already as you generally seem to like games of this type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game There's a whole Wikipedia page of games of this type and their history...

Lol, a wikipedia page is not what I had in mind. Can you point me to a game that came out before HR, that literally resembles a mainstream 'live action' psychological thriller/murder mystery movie, and that is driven by player decisions and features many branching endings?

Sure, yes, literary features that are also associated with mainstream cinema.

They are, but that doesn't make "plot" and "characters" inherently cinematic since they're not an inherent part of the form in the way that cinematography or mise-en-scene or editing are IMHO.

I realize I'm being pedantic about this lol.

I clarified what I meant, and I never said they were inherently cinematic. You pedant.

It's full of those movie-like cut-scenes (often controllable by the player), and camera position and movement is "directed" during many parts of the game. Yes, there's a free-floating camera offering the third person view in the sequences that require you to look around for clues, but the game's design doesn't let you veer too far from the story it is telling

I'd say all of this equally applies to Silent Hill tbh.

More than 50% of HR consists of cinematic cut-scenes or similar vs maybe 5% in SH. Doesn't sound like what I said about HR "equally" applies to SH to me.

and so there's not much in the way of true open-world exploration (like SH).

This is a difference, but Silent Hill's open world is still ultimately tunneling you to specific locations through items you find, hints and puzzles, through information received in cutscenes etc. As in all video games, freedom and decisions are just an illusion. The "open world" is still ultimately a closed, guided space...just a very big space too. IOW its very much directing the player too, if I'm understand what you mean by that.

The point is that the difference in that size makes all the... difference. You may ultimately reach a closed, guided space in SH but it takes some exploration (and trial and error) to get there. Not the case for the tightly knit story in HR.

Also, by "the player is directed in HR", I was referring to direction in the visual sense, like camera placement/movement and editing, these particular "cinematic qualities" being more apparently relied on in HR than SH, which understandably leaves the player in control of the third person view for maximizing immersion in the game's dark, terrifying atmosphere. This is ofc cinematic too, but as I've been saying, in a different way than HR.

I'm sure when you'll play it "eventually" (meaning early 2021?), you'll understand why comparing these two games is rather pointless.

On a separate note, what's not an illusion in HR and games of its kind is that you often DO have some measure of autonomy (ie to choose between paths leading to different endings). Finite and defined by the game's "director", but options nonetheless. I can be a pedant too. :p

BTW Maz, do you have an opinion on this thing with Rock Star and supposed "100 hour work weeks"?

I see no reason not to take the dev's attempt at clarification at their word but a lot of people I know online think they're lying.

Based on one article I read a while ago, I didn't really form an opinion. I thought it was normal for people to work their butts off during a critical project, especially when deadlines are looming. So the developers didn't work on Saturdays for a couple of months straight. Yeah, sounds rough but if they weren't happy, they could have indeed left and found another job that "suited their temperament" (as RG put it)? Am I missing something here?

[Raxivace]

Lol, a wikipedia page is not what I had in mind. Can you point me to a game that came out before HR, that literally resembles a mainstream 'live action' psychological thriller/murder mystery movie, and that is driven by player decisions and features many branching endings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Trap

There's just a random example that came from the "Interactive Movie" link on the "Adventure Game" page I linked you too. There's tons of other similar examples on there if you take off some of your qualifiers here (Cliff Hanger is an interesting one I just noticed on here, apparently being largely built from footage of Hayao Miyazaki's movie Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro. I wonder how that worked. Like it can't be that good because the movie itself sucked but still).

I clarified what I meant, and I never said they were inherently cinematic. You pedant.

Your face is pedantic.

Boom, ice burn.

More than 50% of HR consists of cinematic cut-scenes or similar vs maybe 5% in SH. Doesn't sound like what I said about HR "equally" applies to SH to me.

No its not literally the exact same proportions- forgive me if my usage of "equal" was misleading, I just meant that cutscenes still make up a lot of SH- the game is maybe 6 or 7 hours long total, and still has an entire hour's worth of cutscenes.

he point is that the difference in that size makes all the... difference. You may ultimately reach a closed, guided space in SH but it takes some exploration (and trial and error) to get there.

No, from the beginning that's what the game is. It's just disguised to trick the player into thinking otherwise.

Also, by "the player is directed in HR", I was referring to direction in the visual sense, like camera placement/movement and editing, these particular "cinematic qualities" being more apparently relied on in HR than SH, which understandably leaves the player in control of the third person view for maximizing immersion in the game's dark, terrifying atmosphere. This is ofc cinematic too, but as I've been saying, in a different way than HR.

Alright, this point I'll consider settled.

Look maz, it's progress!

I'm sure when you'll play it "eventually" (meaning early 2021?), you'll understand why comparing these two games is rather pointless.

Nah if anything it proves to me that these types of games are more similar than they are different if the language we use to describe them is still largely similar.

On a separate note, what's not an illusion in HR and games of its kind is that you often DO have some measure of autonomy (ie to choose between paths leading to different endings). Finite and defined by the game's "director", but options nonetheless. I can be a pedant too. :p

Eh I would still consider that an illusion too, especially when the alternate endings are just things like "the character is stabbed suddenly out of nowhere and died".

I don't consider this a bad thing but I very much just do not buy into this idea that games are co-authored by their creators and gamers themselves that I'm starting to see from people who pretend that they're developing a critical theory of video games.

Am I missing something here?

I think we're on the same page with this at least then, because while controversy around this exists I'm still not entirely understanding what people are objecting to myself other than the notion that employees have to do work sometimes.

[Raxivace]

Also I forgot it was coming out so soon but my copy of Soul Calibur 6 came in the mail today. Geralt has his own little mini story mode in here, I'll have to let you know how that is.

Coincidentally I started reading the first Witcher book a few days ago too. I'm about 80 pages in and enjoying it (More than I expected too tbh, considering my mixed reaction to Wild Hunt).

[Eva Yojimbo]

Oooh, look what I started! My only contribution to this recent discussion: I'm not sure I'd call SH's plot "simple," thought it kinda depends on precisely what we're talking about. If we're just talking about what happens in the game with Harry hunting for his daughter, then perhaps;

For clarity's sake, I very much subscribe to the notion that plot is the literal sequential events that happen in a narrative (I.e. Harry searches for his missing daughter, battles monsters, finds her at the end of the game etc.), while story covers more or less everything else (What you call the "details of the story").

Yeah, I figured you were using Bordwell's specific definitions, but I know many who use these terms interchangeably so I wanted to clear up any confusion. Yeah, SH's plot is simple, but the story (and even narrative in many respects) isn't.

I did read about that and am rather astonished it's even a thing. Frankly, what compelled me to buy the game and system was, in large part, how amazing it looked. So if what I watched/played is a "downgraded" version then I can't seem to care. FWIW, during my last playthrough I noticed plenty of large puddles at various points in the game, so I'm inclined to believe that they just moved them around rather than downgraded anything.

I just found the whole controversy goofy. I'm pretty cynical about "gamers" as a subculture lately and stuff like Puddegate, as silly as it is, is just another thing in a long line for me to point to.

From what I gathered, apparently many had been burned before with some games' previews being much visually better than their release versions. Still, I can't imagine anyone with working eyes playing Spider-Man and complaining about its visuals. I can't imagine it being any better unless one developed their own webshooters and started swinging through Manhattan.

In fact, I can count the number of RPGs I've finished on one hand: Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Super Mario RPG, Deus Ex, and Pokemon Blue/Red.

I haven't played Deus Ex, but otherwise Xenogears is very much the odd man out here to me considering how long it is relative to these other games. This is what I wrote about it back in the old days of IMDb when I was finishing the game.

When did you play Xenogears? I played it not long after it came out, and this was even before (for me) NGE so I'd never seen/played anything like it. I think I only grasped a small part of it, but it was just an utterly engrossing experience at the time. I have no idea how well it would hold up today. Pokemon would definitely be mostly nostalgia, as I definitely got caught up in the craze for a little while, and it was insanely fun/addictive catching those little guys. Super Mario RPG was just good, solid fun, like most Marios seem to be. I don't know if anything stands out about it to me beyond just how fun it was. Chrono Trigger is indeed great. It perhaps stands out as the best of all these games. I have little doubt that I could still play it and enjoy it today. Deus Ex was a pretty atypical RPG since it didn't have the dungeon or battle system of most. Instead, it was more like a FPS meets a stealth game with some RPG elements. But it had a really fantastic storyline with a great atmosphere and a lot of user control over how to complete missions. I'm sure many games since have done something similar, and probably done it better, since then, but I loved it at the time. No idea how well it would hold up today.

]I guess I'll make XV the priority then.

The thing about XV is that Square has really doubled down on the whole "multimedia experience" thing with XV. There's a prequel movie (Featuring Sean Bean, Lena Heady, and Aaron Paul of all people, all of whom get to read goofy Final Fantasy dialogue), a prequel anime OVA (Which is probably a little better than the actual movie tbh), the game itself, and there's been a lot of DLC for the game in the works since the base game has come out. 3 story DLC have already come out (Plus a multiplayer expansion), while there's 4 more story DLC in the works.

If I play Witcher next, I may do a non-RPG after that to cleanse the pallet, and then maybe I'll tackle FFXV. BTW, I assume I should get the "Royal Edition",

One thing about both of these games is that they made for two of the better of Conan's Clueless Gamer episodes

Ha, I'll have to check these out later.

Also check out the Tomb Raider episode. The bit of him dying over and over again is priceless.

LOL, I just mean the entire notion of reading these films as, eg, anti-abortion propaganda, which would never have occurred to my "awesomehekilledhimanditwassofuckingbloody" child-self. :)

I see lol. It's just interesting to me to see different films in the same franchise have such different political subtexts.

That's what happens when you bring in different writers/directors. Everyone has their own vision on what the series/characters could/should be.

Also, FWIW, Yang is perhaps the least art-housey of the Taiwanese New Wave. While he is big on technique and themes, he thoroughly filters it through his characters and stories. He's not nearly as artsy/weird as Tsai Ming-liang, and Hou is usually much more minimal story/character wise. Yang is definitely the most accessible of that trio.

Yeah I'm definitely interested in checking more out at some point. It would be great to expand my horizons some more.

Well, it's one of my favorite national film "movements" for a reason. I'd love to see you react to some Tsai only because of how weird he is. The Wayward Cloud is just awesome reaction material.

Actually I changed my mind, Godard should have directed Captain America: Civil War. We could have the big airport battle intercut with like, Matthew Brady photographs or something.

A Godard Marvel film would truly be something to behold.

[Eva Yojimbo]

FWIW, I think I'm going to make Witcher 3 my next game since you both seem to recommend it. Any tips or things I should know before getting started?

A fine choice, good sir. I think the gameplay itself is intuitive so it shouldn't pose too much difficulty as the game introduces you to all of the mechanics at a comfortable pacing (IIRC, make sure you invest in Quen, a magical spell that grants a one-hit-proof shield). If you want to make use of the full range of the game's (ridiculously fun) combat system, I suggest you play on the maximum difficulty. The game might be a little challenging in the beginning, but once you figure out how parrying and dodging work and you start investing in your skills and figure out how alchemy/smithing works, you'll realize (... or I realized) fighting the tougher guys is way more rewarding when you have to strategize before you attack rather than when you just take a blindly-grind-them-until-they-drop approach (which I think is what the easier difficulty allows you to do). Also important: you'll be introduced to the in-game card game named Gwent early on in the game. Pay attention to the rules and keep practicing with the people you meet with to win the good cards. It unlocks the non-violent option in some quests, and, more importantly, once you get the hang of it, it's a shit load of fun and very satisfying too.

As far as the Witcher lore and history goes, this is a good place to start for a non-spoiler summary that gives you the broad strokes. You can come back to it while you play the game if it's too much to take in in one go. While the events in W2 are interesting to read about, I don't think they have a huge impact on the events of W3. To elaborate, once you progress through the first "part" of the game, you'll be asked a series of questions about what happened during the events of Witcher 2. It is then you decide how you would have played W2 if you had played it. But whatever you choose, it won't affect the ending you get or, heck, even the minor plot points in W3. At the most, you unlock certain dialogues or a side mission in which you meet with a character you decided not to kill in the previous game.

I wonder about the difficulty... playing Spider-Man I got a lot of reminders (*ahem*died-a-lot*ahem*) of how rusty my gaming skills were. That said, by the end of my second playthrough I had it on the hardest level and was breezing through it, so maybe I got back in the [bad pun]swing of things.[/bad pun] Still, I come from the age of NES games like Ninja Gaiden and Contra whose entire mission was to beat your ass into submission, so I don't mind a good challenge either. I'll definitely keep Quen and Gwent in mind. Thanks for the history/story guide. I'll definitely give it a read-through ASAP. BTW, how many endings are there? That is one thing that bugs me about many of these longer games; too many endings to feasibly work through, unless you just dedicate the rest of your life to playing the damn thing.

[Raxivace]

From what I gathered, apparently many had been burned before with some games' previews being much visually better than their release versions. Still, I can't imagine anyone with working eyes playing Spider-Man and complaining about its visuals. I can't imagine it being any better unless one developed their own webshooters and started swinging through Manhattan.

You know Jimbo, I can't help but notice it took you a long to time to respond to this post...

Could it be that you, through a Freudian slip of the fingers on your keyboard, you've revealed that it is you yourself who has developed your own webshooters? Are you fighting crime in New York City?

When did you play Xenogears? I played it not long after it came out, and this was even before (for me) NGE so I'd never seen/played anything like it. I think I only grasped a small part of it, but it was just an utterly engrossing experience at the time. I have no idea how well it would hold up today.

I think I started it back in...2012 I think, around the first time I saw NGE in its entirety, but restarted it at some point and finished it in 2014.

Xenogears has the same ingame text font as Super Mario RPG funnily enough (Probably because Squaresoft made both), so it ended invoking a lot of nostalgia in me. The Eva comparisons seemed a little overstated to me at the time (Like I'd say there's more Eva in RahXephon than in Xenogears), though there is definitely some influence in there.

Pokemon would definitely be mostly nostalgia, as I definitely got caught up in the craze for a little while, and it was insanely fun/addictive catching those little guys. Super Mario RPG was just good, solid fun, like most Marios seem to be. I don't know if anything stands out about it to me beyond just how fun it was. Chrono Trigger is indeed great. It perhaps stands out as the best of all these games. I have little doubt that I could still play it and enjoy it today.

Yeah this all sounds about right.

Deus Ex was a pretty atypical RPG since it didn't have the dungeon or battle system of most. Instead, it was more like a FPS meets a stealth game with some RPG elements. But it had a really fantastic storyline with a great atmosphere and a lot of user control over how to complete missions. I'm sure many games since have done something similar, and probably done it better, since then, but I loved it at the time. No idea how well it would hold up today.

Interesting. That sounds like the direction Metal Gear went it starting with Peace Walker, with a huge variety of ways to complete missions, some RPG elements etc.

If I play Witcher next, I may do a non-RPG after that to cleanse the pallet, and then maybe I'll tackle FFXV. BTW, I assume I should get the "Royal Edition",

Yeah, looks like the Royal Edition contains the base game, the expanded version of the final area of the game (I actually haven't played this version of the level myself yet), and the current batch of DLC that's available.

Well, it's one of my favorite national film "movements" for a reason. I'd love to see you react to some Tsai only because of how weird he is. The Wayward Cloud is just awesome reaction material.

Cool, looking forward to it.

[Faustus5]

I wonder about the difficulty... playing Spider-Man I got a lot of reminders (*ahem*died-a-lot*ahem*) of how rusty my gaming skills were.

My skills have always been almost non-existent. In the time it has taken you to play through the game several times, working up to the highest difficulty level, I'm still barely over a third of the way through. On "Friendly". I actually came close to just giving up and shelving it forever.

It's a fantastic game, but I play these things to relax and enjoy the stories and visuals. And in combat as Spiderman, you can do anything but relax.

[maz89]

Lol, a wikipedia page is not what I had in mind. Can you point me to a game that came out before HR, that literally resembles a mainstream 'live action' psychological thriller/murder mystery movie, and that is driven by player decisions and features many branching endings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Trap

There's just a random example that came from the "Interactive Movie" link on the "Adventure Game" page I linked you too. There's tons of other similar examples on there if you take off some of your qualifiers here (Cliff Hanger is an interesting one I just noticed on here, apparently being largely built from footage of Hayao Miyazaki's movie Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro. I wonder how that worked. Like it can't be that good because the movie itself sucked but still).

Night Trap does not seem to feature branching endings (edit: oh nvm, it does, depending on who you choose to save, very creative). And it doesn't really look too much like it could work nearly as well as a 'live action' film. But yeah graphics aside, again, I never claimed HR invented a whole new genre, only that it innovated by focusing on a "serious" story (which may or may not work for you) resembling an actual Hollywood film with high production values. It did this better than anything that came before. Btw, do you know a game that HR served as an inspiration for? Telltale's TWD.

I clarified what I meant, and I never said they were inherently cinematic. You pedant.

Your face is pedantic.

Boom, ice burn.

Rax -1, maz89 0.

he point is that the difference in that size makes all the... difference. You may ultimately reach a closed, guided space in SH but it takes some exploration (and trial and error) to get there.

No, from the beginning that's what the game is. It's just disguised to trick the player into thinking otherwise.

We're talking relatively here, remember - it certainly takes a lot more time "exploring in dark environments" in SH than in HR.

Look maz, it's progress!

The only progress that matters is you playing the game!

I'm sure when you'll play it "eventually" (meaning early 2021?), you'll understand why comparing these two games is rather pointless.

Nah if anything it proves to me that these types of games are more similar than they are different if the language we use to describe them is still largely similar.

Agree to disagree.

On a separate note, what's not an illusion in HR and games of its kind is that you often DO have some measure of autonomy (ie to choose between paths leading to different endings). Finite and defined by the game's "director", but options nonetheless. I can be a pedant too. :p

Eh I would still consider that an illusion too, especially when the alternate endings are just things like "the character is stabbed suddenly out of nowhere and died".

I don't consider this a bad thing but I very much just do not buy into this idea that games are co-authored by their creators and gamers themselves that I'm starting to see from people who pretend that they're developing a critical theory of video games.

Au contraire, even the alternate endings, at least in Detroit because I've seen so many of them, are well thought out and work really well from a thematic standpoint.

Also I forgot it was coming out so soon but my copy of Soul Calibur 6 came in the mail today. Geralt has his own little mini story mode in here, I'll have to let you know how that is.

WTF

[maz89]

BTW, how many endings are there? That is one thing that bugs me about many of these longer games; too many endings to feasibly work through, unless you just dedicate the rest of your life to playing the damn thing.

Haha, yeah. I think the main storyline has three endings, but there are different (unlinked) sub-endings for the key characters or key locations, so the total variations are like more than 30 or something. So if you don't like ending you get, make your peace with it and youtube what could have been.

[maz89]

I definitely intend to check out Spider-Man. Lot of good reviews, and then all of you here talking about how much the game is.

[maz89]

One thing about both of these games is that they made for two of the better of Conan's Clueless Gamer episodes:


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJFbsQBvLw&t=318s[/youtube]

OMG, I died!
"Where is his sex finder?"
"The game's got 36 endings". "I don't care as long as one of them is happy".
[Geralt enters water hag's lair] "With our luck, this is where we have the sex. With the water hag."
[Geralt enters bathhouse full of naked women]"Not sure if anything will happen if you talk to them". [Conan turns to camera] "In my experience, it won't"

Conan plays the game like a horny teenager.

Saw the Tomb Raider, hilarious too! May have to watch them all of them.

[Kuribo4]

@Rax:
The next anime Godzilla I think will come out relatively soon I think. So far I think it's really cool, but yeah, nothing with the impact of Shin Godzilla.

Do you think there is another post on the internet that contains commentary on both Mechagodzilla and Godard?

The Incredibles I always enjoyed, but I have often heard the "superior people being held back" angle criticized, so I'll pay more attention to it next time.

I'm more likely to forget things through bingewatching
Same thing happens to me. I like my pauses, thinking about what I have seen. Maybe that's another reason going to the cinema can be overwhelming to me with denser films. I like maybe pausing at some point. With weekly shows, you are almost forced to do that, and it's fun interacting with other fans, sharing opinions, etc.

[Kuribo4]

(Looking at the first post here)
160~ films in one year. Damn. That's about one every other day or so.

Pfft, back in my late teens I saw around 1100 films in one year. Some days I did almost nothing but watch films all day.

Holy crap.
I think I grew up with the internet too much, it's sort of a routine thing that takes up much time. I also spent a lot of time rewatching the same things several times lol.
But in any case, I don't think I have the energy for a 1100 film-year haha.

[Kuribo4]

@Jimbo:
If film watching requires energy, you're doing it wrong. ;)
I'm with Rax here. I feel like the things I enjoy take energy from me. Maybe it's my borderline ocd mind or something lol. I don't enjoy them less though.

Great seeing you playing games.
I could never sell a console, one of my weird trates. I get so attached to them. I see why somebody would do it though.
I would say, look into Death Stranding by Hideo Kojima. It is the only PS4 game I'm really, really interestes in. Despite nobody really knowing what the game actually is.
This being Kojima, the game could start talking or something.
Did you know Kojima at one point wanted the Metal Gear Solid 2 disc to destroy itself? I look forward to Death Stranding wrecking my family's TV setup!

As for FFVII, that is one of my favourite videogames ever. I guess I'm being sort of a purist when I say this, but the PS4 version looks really ugly. I own both the PS1 version and the digital version of it on PS3. The upres on PS4 does it no favours. In any case, it has my favourite story in a game so far. Played it right after watching Evangelion for the first time. That was an exciting year!

Btw, the script for the Spider Man game was written by a guy who does Spidey comics too. Maybe those would be for you?
I haven't played the game but have always liked the character and love the Raimi films.

@Rax:
but its the closest we'll ever get to having an Evangelion game in English
There is actually a free mobile phone game in English called Eva Dawn, which I might check out soon. I know little about it.
And there's Evangelion 3nd Impact (Sound Impact) on PSP, the music game. I don't think you really need the language for that. I actually own it despite not owning a PSP yet.

Edit: Guys, are you feeling this? General chat is alive. We survived the downfall of an entire forum.
Thanks Rax for keeping it that way.
I really should try to be more frequent. Which I always say.
Anyways, right now I'm fully focused on Xenogears. It takes so much time, that's the only thing I get to right now. Interrupted my Utena rewatch too with all the Xeno stuff.
Yasunori Mitsuda is an amazing composer:
https://youtu.be/48DS6T2NJMQ


@Rax: Could you give me a quick opinion on FFXV? I always assumed it woulfn't be for me. Didn't know you had played it. I've heard complaints here and there. What did you think?

@Jimbo:
(Sorry this post is such a jumbled mess, just trying to answer some of the stuff I see)

Super Mario RPG was just good, solid fun, like most Marios seem to be.

To me Mario games are actually some of the most beautiful in the entire medium. They aren't just fun to me, but actually really important, probably in part due to nostalgia for the characters and world, but I think they really are that well made and filled with joy. Like many people point out certain animated shows or films as the thing that makes them feel pure joy, for me I think it's Mario games. I'm talking about the platformers btw, I haven't played Mario RPG yet. I have played another Mario RPG though, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. That was my first rpg as a kid lol. The idea of a game with so much dialogue and plot twists and stuff was mind blowing to me.
I got off topic a little. Anyways, I love Mario. I actually teared up watching the trailer for the newest game (Mario Odyssey) lol. And ended up loving the game too.
Obviously this will be very different to other people! Jist wanted to share my view.
Especially Mario Galaxy is very special to me (and Mario 64 as well). Was a good companion during a rough time as a kid. Seeing the vastness of space, but through the lens of this lighthearted game, accompanied by the absolutely beautiful soundtrack...it's probably my favourite game, if I had to make the hard decision and choose one.

@Rax:
Sort of related, but going weird:
Did you catch the weird "Bowsette" phenomenon? I'm sure you have. Anyways, the artbook for Mario Odyssey (which I own, I can confirm this is real) shows that Nintendo almost included something very similar in the actual game. Bowser possesing Peach with his own "Cappy", resulting in a horned...uh..."bad looking" Peach (though nit sexualized). Who would have thought this typically internet thing was actually almost official?

[Eva Yojimbo]

From what I gathered, apparently many had been burned before with some games' previews being much visually better than their release versions. Still, I can't imagine anyone with working eyes playing Spider-Man and complaining about its visuals. I can't imagine it being any better unless one developed their own webshooters and started swinging through Manhattan.

You know Jimbo, I can't help but notice it took you a long to time to respond to this post...

Could it be that you, through a Freudian slip of the fingers on your keyboard, you've revealed that it is you yourself who has developed your own webshooters? Are you fighting crime in New York City?

Ummm, of course not. Hold that thought. *Runs off to meet a friend who almost turned into a supervillain but didn't because Spider-Man stopped him* *returns with friend dressed as Spider-Man* See, this is the real Spider-Man. He and I are in the same place, so it can't be me. :)

(OK, this is a super geeky joke that almost nobody will get, but I chuckled writing it).

When did you play Xenogears? I played it not long after it came out, and this was even before (for me) NGE so I'd never seen/played anything like it. I think I only grasped a small part of it, but it was just an utterly engrossing experience at the time. I have no idea how well it would hold up today.

I think I started it back in...2012 I think, around the first time I saw NGE in its entirety, but restarted it at some point and finished it in 2014.

Xenogears has the same ingame text font as Super Mario RPG funnily enough (Probably because Squaresoft made both), so it ended invoking a lot of nostalgia in me. The Eva comparisons seemed a little overstated to me at the time (Like I'd say there's more Eva in RahXephon than in Xenogears), though there is definitely some influence in there.

Yeah, I imagine playing it around the time of watching NGE would make the differences stand out more. I played Xenogears about a decade before seeing NGE, so when I did see NGE it actually reminded me a bit of Xenogears. I'm sure RahXephon is more similar since it's as close as anyone's come to blatantly ripping off NGE.

Deus Ex was a pretty atypical RPG since it didn't have the dungeon or battle system of most. Instead, it was more like a FPS meets a stealth game with some RPG elements. But it had a really fantastic storyline with a great atmosphere and a lot of user control over how to complete missions. I'm sure many games since have done something similar, and probably done it better, since then, but I loved it at the time. No idea how well it would hold up today.

Interesting. That sounds like the direction Metal Gear went it starting with Peace Walker, with a huge variety of ways to complete missions, some RPG elements etc.

Since my Witcher order was delayed, I actually decided to play Bioshock (game got here like... the day after I ordered it!) and, TBH, it's reminding me a bit of Deus Ex with its FPS and hacking/RPG elements, though Bioshock seems more linear in how you play through levels, and there's no extended dialogue between characters. In Deus Ex you can upgrade hacking and lockpicking skills that can get you access to different areas/goodies and sometimes allow different/easier routes through a mission. I think I'm about finished with Bioshock (I'm on the level where you're collecting the stuff to make yourself into a Big Daddy), and so far I'd say I prefer Deus Ex by quite a bit, though Bioshock's was a good change of pace from Spider-Man.

[Raxivace]

but its the closest we'll ever get to having an Evangelion game in English
There is actually a free mobile phone game in English called Eva Dawn, which I might check out soon. I know little about it.
And there's Evangelion 3nd Impact (Sound Impact) on PSP, the music game. I don't think you really need the language for that. I actually own it despite not owning a PSP yet.

Huh, I hadn't heard of either of those.

Yasunori Mitsuda is an amazing composer:

Yeah we haven't really mentioned it yet but Mitsuda's score is top notch. I listen to a lot of songs from it often.

@Rax: Could you give me a quick opinion on FFXV? I always assumed it woulfn't be for me. Didn't know you had played it. I've heard complaints here and there. What did you think?

I enjoyed it quite a bit- certainly a lot more than I did XII, XIII, or XIII-2 (Though I kinda liked XIII-2). It's got flaws (Load times are probably the biggest one for me), but I really liked its aesthetic and chillaxing vibe.

@Rax:
Sort of related, but going weird:
Did you catch the weird "Bowsette" phenomenon? I'm sure you have. Anyways, the artbook for Mario Odyssey (which I own, I can confirm this is real) shows that Nintendo almost included something very similar in the actual game. Bowser possesing Peach with his own "Cappy", resulting in a horned...uh..."bad looking" Peach (though nit sexualized). Who would have thought this typically internet thing was actually almost official?

I did catch that and didn't really have an opinion on it (Seemed to be a popular search on Pornhub based on a news article I saw). That something similar almost ended up in Mario Odyssey is funny.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I wonder about the difficulty... playing Spider-Man I got a lot of reminders (*ahem*died-a-lot*ahem*) of how rusty my gaming skills were.

My skills have always been almost non-existent. In the time it has taken you to play through the game several times, working up to the highest difficulty level, I'm still barely over a third of the way through. On "Friendly". I actually came close to just giving up and shelving it forever.

It's a fantastic game, but I play these things to relax and enjoy the stories and visuals. And in combat as Spiderman, you can do anything but relax.

TBH, I couldn't tell a huge difference between the difficulty levels. I think the difference is supposed to be in how frequently the baddies attack, but the biggest struggle in combat is in timing dodges, and that can be difficult whether one guy or four guys are attacking. You always need one eye on the "Spidey Sense" indicator and your finger on the dodge button. Definitely don't just button mash! That's what got me into trouble early on. Learning how/when to use the gadgets makes things much easier. An easy way to get through some of the early stuff is web-bomb into crowds, then do the launch attack -> pull down (hold-square -> hold triangle) that will instantly stick webbed baddies to the ground. Impact web is also great for any baddie within several feet of a wall. Regular web-shooter will also take anyone out who's been knocked down or right next to a wall. For regular combat, stay in the air as much as possible since you're only vulnerable in the air to guns/rockets. Also, if you learn to "time" your button mashes to coincide with your hits you'll build focus much faster (this takes a bit of practice, but once you get the rhythm down it's easy).

This will work throughout most of the game until you get to the Sable Agents that have body armor, then you have to start using the levitation gadget (I forget what it's called) and electric web on the ones with jet packs. Also, for the suit powers, Web Blossom is really the only one you need. Use it in a crowd and it can often take out every baddie on the screen. For skills, upgrade that central "Defender" stuff ASAP since the last several (the perfect dodge - > perfect dodge strike -> double finisher) are the most useful in the game. You can pretty much ignore the far right side of Webslinger. The others are user preference depending on how you play.

Definitely don't shelve it! The ending is fantastic, probably the most moving I've ever seen in any Marvel movie/game/comic since they killed Gwen Stacy back in 1973. If you have any specific difficulties, feel free to hit me up. :)

[Raxivace]

Ummm, of course not. Hold that thought. *Runs off to meet a friend who almost turned into a supervillain but didn't because Spider-Man stopped him* *returns with friend dressed as Spider-Man* See, this is the real Spider-Man. He and I are in the same place, so it can't be me. :)

(OK, this is a super geeky joke that almost nobody will get, but I chuckled writing it).

See that just makes me think of the Jon Oliver theory about how there's only one Olsen twin just moving really fast to make it seem like she's in two places at once lol.

I'm sure RahXephon is more similar since it's as close as anyone's come to blatantly ripping off NGE.

Did you ever Brain Powerd? That's another from that era that's in a similar mold.

I...don't recommend Brain Powerd unless you really want to hatewatch something.

Since my Witcher order was delayed, I actually decided to play Bioshock (game got here like... the day after I ordered it!) and, TBH, it's reminding me a bit of Deus Ex with its FPS and hacking/RPG elements, though Bioshock seems more linear in how you play through levels, and there's no extended dialogue between characters. In Deus Ex you can upgrade hacking and lockpicking skills that can get you access to different areas/goodies and sometimes allow different/easier routes through a mission. I think I'm about finished with Bioshock (I'm on the level where you're collecting the stuff to make yourself into a Big Daddy), and so far I'd say I prefer Deus Ex by quite a bit, though Bioshock's was a good change of pace from Spider-Man.

Ah I thought you would like BioShock more. I absolutely love the ruined art deco design, the leaking water, collecting the audio logs, combining different Plasmids and tonics etc. My absolute favorite thing to do in that game is use all of the hacking/targeting/mind control plasmids, turn invisible in a corner somewhere, and watch and laugh as everything in Rapture destroys itself.

If you're collecting the Big Daddy parts you're practically done with the game- maybe an hour left.

[Raxivace]

@Rax:
The next anime Godzilla I think will come out relatively soon I think. So far I think it's really cool, but yeah, nothing with the impact of Shin Godzilla.

I'm curious to see how it all ends.

Do you think there is another post on the internet that contains commentary on both Mechagodzilla and Godard?

I hope so.

MechaGodardzilla...

[Eva Yojimbo]

BTW, how many endings are there? That is one thing that bugs me about many of these longer games; too many endings to feasibly work through, unless you just dedicate the rest of your life to playing the damn thing.

Haha, yeah. I think the main storyline has three endings, but there are different (unlinked) sub-endings for the key characters or key locations, so the total variations are like more than 30 or something. So if you don't like ending you get, make your peace with it and youtube what could have been.

Gaah, this drives me batty! I hate not being able to get all the endings myself. I guess I can YouTube them, but it's still annoying. Are all the endings "good" endings or are there some to avoid? And if so, how do I avoid them? I don't mind spoiling a few things if it means getting the best ending on the first playthrough.

I definitely intend to check out Spider-Man. Lot of good reviews, and then all of you here talking about how much the game is.

It really is amazing (har, har). It's not perfect, but its flaws are more minor annoyances while its strong-points (storyline, visuals, webslinging traversal, combat) are truly great. Really, the flaws are mostly just in all the side-stuff. EG, I found the research station missions rather boring (especially second and third go-round) and the lab "puzzles" seem out of place. Technically, all that could be skipped, but then you'd lose access to certain suits/upgrades, so I just 100%-ed the game each time.

One thing about both of these games is that they made for two of the better of Conan's Clueless Gamer episodes:

OMG, I died!
"Where is his sex finder?"
"The game's got 36 endings". "I don't care as long as one of them is happy".
[Geralt enters water hag's lair] "With our luck, this is where we have the sex. With the water hag."
[Geralt enters bathhouse full of naked women]"Not sure if anything will happen if you talk to them". [Conan turns to camera] "In my experience, it won't"

Conan plays the game like a horny teenager.

Saw the Tomb Raider, hilarious too! May have to watch them all of them.

There's actually an Easter egg in Witcher that references that Conan episode:


My favorite part is actually the end of FFXV:

Conan: The people who made the game are outside, and I didn't realize they were watching us, watching me now complain viciously about the game... the only way to get to my car and get back to my life is through that door, this is more thrilling than anything in the game... *opens door* Hello, you've been working on this game for 7 months, you helped build this? WHAT'S THE FUCKING PURPOSE!? YOU'RE A MURDERER! A MASS MURDERER OF PEOPLE'S TIME! Babies will not be born because of you! Crops will not be brought in from the field! That said, good job.



FWIW, the later Clueless Gamers when he started bringing in guests weren't nearly as good as the earlier ones when it's just him and
Aaron. The FFXV is one of the rare exceptions with a good guest that added to it. The GTA V one was also great.

[Raxivace]

oh nvm, it does, depending on who you choose to save, very creative

This but unironically.

Btw, do you know a game that HR served as an inspiration for? Telltale's TWD.

I'd be really surprised if this was the case since much of TWD's systems were already in place in Back to the Future which came out shortly after HR did.

Rax -1, maz89 0.

Your face is -1.

Oh shit you got ice burned again. I must be one of them ice zombie dragons.

We're talking relatively here, remember - it certainly takes a lot more time "exploring in dark environments" in SH than in HR.

I'm not entirely sure you understood what I was saying- I'm not even really making a comparison between SH and HR here, I'm talking about how even open world level design is still designed to guide players in more or less the same way that, say, the hospital level is.

WTF

Video games are art that is worthy of study.

[Gendo]

Back to the Mario and RPG discussion... have you guys played any of the Paper Mario series? It's fair to call them RPGs; similar to Mario RPG. Different enough, though.

I just finished Thousand Year Door (the second one, for Game Cube). I think I liked the original (for N64) a little more. But really looking forward to playing the next one, Super Paper Mario for the Wii.

[Raxivace]

Back to the Mario and RPG discussion... have you guys played any of the Paper Mario series? It's fair to call them RPGs; similar to Mario RPG. Different enough, though.

I just finished Thousand Year Door (the second one, for Game Cube). I think I liked the original (for N64) a little more. But really looking forward to playing the next one, Super Paper Mario for the Wii.

I've played Paper Mario and Thousand Year Door. They're both good.

I tried Super Paper Mario but didn't really care for it.

[Raxivace]

191. Taste the Blood of Dracula (1970, Dir. Peter Sasdy) - Three English gentlemen meet a mysterious man and team up with him to revive Dracula for shits and giggles. The three men decide actually that's lame, beat the mysterious man to death, but Dracula is revived anyways and seeks revenge for the murder of his servant by turning the men's children against them.

It's a pretty standard Hammer Horror Dracula in most ways- more explicit than Universal in terms of sex and violence, more naturalistic without sacrificing some decent atmosphere, but man that prologue with the gentlemen meeting the servant takes up like half of this movie. It's a bit of a slow burn for something like 95 minutes long

Also one of the kids of the gentlemen is named Paul, which is strange because the previous film in this series (Dracula Has Risen From the Grave) also had a lead named Paul but it's a different Paul. That Paul was an atheist, I don't think this Paul is.

192. Scars of Dracula (1970, Dir. Roy Ward Baker) - Largely similar to the previous film. One of the main characters is even a dude named Paul, who is distinct from the other two Pauls! Why are there so many Pauls????

Anyways this Paul gets thrown out of a girl's house by her father, and then takes refuge in Dracula's castle where he is promptly murdered by the Count (How Dracula is still alive or even at his castle after what happened in the previous film is a mystery). Paul's brother and girlfriend come to find him and get. caught up in the battle against Dracula.

The whole plot seems very reminiscent of the basic plot of Psycho to me, especially with how gothic the two films are.

193. Dracula A.D. 1972 (1972, Dir. Alan Gibson) - Johnny Alucard (lol), a kind of Alex DeLarge-lite, enjoys going around London circa 1972 and just fuckin' with people for no real reason. One day he decides to revive Dracula, who seeks revenge on the descendants of his nemesis Van Helsing…

This movie is super goofy and 1972 as hell, but its fairly fun. Frankly the premise should not work as well as it does, but having Peter Cushing not only back for the first time since Brides of Dracula but running around London searching for clues for Dracula is just great.

Any idea of this being in continuity with the previous Hammer Draculas is just thrown out here, but frankly I'm not sure this film would be any better if one of the three freaking Pauls was running around for no reason.

194. The Satanic Rites of Dracula (1973, Dir. Alan Gibson) - Christopher Lee's last outing as Dracula for Hammer. Dracula is back in 70's London, and now he's a biological terrorist or something threatening to unleash a plague upon the Earth to wipe out all of humanity, and Peter Cushing as Van Helsing has to stop him once again…

It's more of a sequel than most of the previous films has been, unfortunately this one just has like no momentum at all. Bit of a disappoint to Lee's end as Dracula- he's defeated here for good by getting tricked into walking into a bush of thorns for god's sake. However there is one more entry in the saga I will discuss later…

195. The 15:17 to Paris (2018, Dir. Clint Eastwood) - Took a brief break from horror to watch this with my dad. Eastwood trying to go all neorealism by casting the guys actually involved in the incident depicted in the movie is interesting (Especially considering his recent focus on biopics and so on), but he doesn't pull it together as well as a film like The Battle of Algiers.

It's a weird oddity in Eastwood's career still because of that, will have to give it some more thought later.

196 Mothra (1961, Dir. Ishiro Honda) - Largely a riff on the King Kong story. Some asshole named Nelson goes to a forgotten island civilization, meets native people, native people worship a monster as a deity. There are two big differences though.

1. Instead of bringing a monster back, Nelson takes two “faerie" women from the island and runs exploitative shows using them. This is actually why Mothra attacks Japan- she's trying to rescue these two girls.
2. There's a whole reporter angle in the film, about a team of newspaper people trying to figure out what is up with Nelson's shenanigans. I guess in a way Mothra this means Mothra is a newspaper film.

The finale is set in New Kirk City (In a fictional country called Rolisica) for some reason. It's kind of weird- apparently its supposed to be an amalgamation of the United States and Russia.

The ending here is kind of neat too- Mothra isn't defeated but merely temporarily neutralized so the faerie girls can be peacefully returned to her and then…she just goes home.

Also Takashi Shimura is in this film! His character works for the newspaper office. I'm so used to him from Kurosawa's movies that it's kind of funny to see him in these kaiju movies like this and the original Godzilla.

Mothra is a fun film. I don't think it quite reaches the heights of the original Godzilla but it's still a neat entry in the genre.

197. The Curse of Frankenstein (1957, Dir. Terrence Fisher) - The first of the Hammer Frankenstein films! Peter Cushing plays Victor Frankenstein, Christopher Lee is the monster. It has the kind of set design you would expect from Hammer and it's just great.

Cushing's Victor is an interesting contrast to Colin Clive's in the Universal movies. Clive was a megalomaniac who more or less thought he was challenging God and he wasn't afraid to ham it up and give soliloquies all about it.

Cushing's is arguably more tragic- he starts out more as just a curious boy drawn to science that gets more and more distorted the deeper he gets into his experiments, ultimately ending up betrayed by his mentor-turned-partner Paul (OF FUCKING COURSE HE IS NAMED PAUL. OF FUCKING COURSE. WHAT ELSE COULD A GUY BE NAMED IN A HAMMER FILM OTHER THAN FUCKING PAUL. GAAAAHHHHHHHH PAAAAAAAAUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLL) who is just too horrified by what Victor has become.

I'm curious to see how the sequels develop further, since apparently the Hammer films keep the focus on Victor and not his monster.

[Eva Yojimbo]

@Jimbo:
If film watching requires energy, you're doing it wrong. ;)
I'm with Rax here. I feel like the things I enjoy take energy from me. Maybe it's my borderline ocd mind or something lol. I don't enjoy them less though.

Nah, I get that. I guess for me, if I get to the point where any of my hobbies feel like they're sucking my energy, I just quite doing them for a while and do something else. I never know when I'll get out of the mood for something or into the mood for something... it's pretty random. But if I'm really in the mood, then everything's effortless.

Great seeing you playing games.
I could never sell a console, one of my weird trates. I get so attached to them. I see why somebody would do it though.
I would say, look into Death Stranding by Hideo Kojima. It is the only PS4 game I'm really, really interestes in. Despite nobody really knowing what the game actually is.
This being Kojima, the game could start talking or something.
Did you know Kojima at one point wanted the Metal Gear Solid 2 disc to destroy itself? I look forward to Death Stranding wrecking my family's TV setup!

I sold my consoles/games years ago because it really seemed like I was done with gaming. Like, I hadn't played in probably 5 years. I was also sitting on a lot of games that were worth a lot of money, especially because I took good care of my games. Biggest one I sold was Ninja Gaiden Trilogy (the SNES port) for $300.

Thanks for the Death Stranding rec. Sounds interesting. Hideo Kojima seems to be quite the character!

As for FFVII, that is one of my favourite videogames ever. I guess I'm being sort of a purist when I say this, but the PS4 version looks really ugly. I own both the PS1 version and the digital version of it on PS3. The upres on PS4 does it no favours. In any case, it has my favourite story in a game so far. Played it right after watching Evangelion for the first time. That was an exciting year!

I may get to it eventually, though it'll probably be the PS4 version since I hate the idea of stocking up on consoles. I may do that for PS3 just to play the MGS games...

Btw, the script for the Spider Man game was written by a guy who does Spidey comics too. Maybe those would be for you?
I haven't played the game but have always liked the character and love the Raimi films.

Yep, Gage and Slott who've worked on a few Spidey titles in recent years. I've also been reading the comics again recently but I haven't gotten that far yet... though I picked up back where I left off ~20 years ago. :/

First two Raimi films were great; third sucked ass. Apparently even Raimi hated it. Really sad they botched the Venom storyline, since he was always my favorite Spidey villain/anti-hero.

Edit: Guys, are you feeling this? General chat is alive. We survived the downfall of an entire forum.

You're welcome.

(Sorry this post is such a jumbled mess, just trying to answer some of the stuff I see)

Super Mario RPG was just good, solid fun, like most Marios seem to be.

To me Mario games are actually some of the most beautiful in the entire medium. They aren't just fun to me, but actually really important, probably in part due to nostalgia for the characters and world, but I think they really are that well made and filled with joy. Like many people point out certain animated shows or films as the thing that makes them feel pure joy, for me I think it's Mario games. I'm talking about the platformers btw, I haven't played Mario RPG yet. I have played another Mario RPG though, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. That was my first rpg as a kid lol. The idea of a game with so much dialogue and plot twists and stuff was mind blowing to me.
I got off topic a little. Anyways, I love Mario. I actually teared up watching the trailer for the newest game (Mario Odyssey) lol. And ended up loving the game too.
Obviously this will be very different to other people! Jist wanted to share my view.
Especially Mario Galaxy is very special to me (and Mario 64 as well). Was a good companion during a rough time as a kid. Seeing the vastness of space, but through the lens of this lighthearted game, accompanied by the absolutely beautiful soundtrack...it's probably my favourite game, if I had to make the hard decision and choose one.

This was beautiful. Mario has a huge nostalgia factor for me too. The first SMB was the first game I had/played as a kid as it came with my NES. I remember being so frustrated when I couldn't get through the first level and I was so pissed when my mom actually beat it before me, lol! Years after that when I was like 10-11 I spent most of the summer at my cousin's house and we spent the majority of the time playing Super Mario World and Super Mario All-Stars for SNES that had SMB 1-3 and the Lost Levels. We beat all four games eventually and, I think, discovered most of the hidden stuff. We did the same thing next summer with Donkey Kong Kountry and Ninja Gaiden Trilogy. I did play SMW 2 and later Mario 64 and RPG on my own, but that was as far as I went with Mario since N64 was the last Nintendo console I had.

[Raxivace]

I remember reading somewhere once that Raimi just hated the idea of Venom as a character, which is really weird to me because its not like the symbiote is that different of a concept from the deadites in Evil Dead and so on.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Back to the Mario and RPG discussion... have you guys played any of the Paper Mario series? It's fair to call them RPGs; similar to Mario RPG. Different enough, though.

I started playing the original Paper Mario on N64 but don't think I got very far. I don't remember much about it.

[Eva Yojimbo]

^ Will check out the horror movie reviews later... don't think I've seen any of those, though.

Ummm, of course not. Hold that thought. *Runs off to meet a friend who almost turned into a supervillain but didn't because Spider-Man stopped him* *returns with friend dressed as Spider-Man* See, this is the real Spider-Man. He and I are in the same place, so it can't be me. :)

(OK, this is a super geeky joke that almost nobody will get, but I chuckled writing it).

See that just makes me think of the Jon Oliver theory about how there's only one Olsen twin just moving really fast to make it seem like she's in two places at once lol.

I'm sure RahXephon is more similar since it's as close as anyone's come to blatantly ripping off NGE.

Did you ever Brain Powerd? That's another from that era that's in a similar mold.

I...don't recommend Brain Powerd unless you really want to hatewatch something.

Haven't seen Brain Powered, but I have heard the soundtrack because, y'know, Yoko Kanno and all. What's so bad about it that it'd deserve a hate watch? OST was dope.

Since my Witcher order was delayed, I actually decided to play Bioshock (game got here like... the day after I ordered it!) and, TBH, it's reminding me a bit of Deus Ex with its FPS and hacking/RPG elements, though Bioshock seems more linear in how you play through levels, and there's no extended dialogue between characters. In Deus Ex you can upgrade hacking and lockpicking skills that can get you access to different areas/goodies and sometimes allow different/easier routes through a mission. I think I'm about finished with Bioshock (I'm on the level where you're collecting the stuff to make yourself into a Big Daddy), and so far I'd say I prefer Deus Ex by quite a bit, though Bioshock's was a good change of pace from Spider-Man.

Ah I thought you would like BioShock more. I absolutely love the ruined art deco design, the leaking water, collecting the audio logs, combining different Plasmids and tonics etc. My absolute favorite thing to do in that game is use all of the hacking/targeting/mind control plasmids, turn invisible in a corner somewhere, and watch and laugh as everything in Rapture destroys itself.

If you're collecting the Big Daddy parts you're practically done with the game- maybe an hour left.

I've enjoyed Bioshock a lot, actually, but Deus Ex really was one of my favorites back in the day. Like, if Deus Ex was a 9.5 for me, Bioshock's probably a solid 8/8.5. I do think the art deco designs are the best part. Great atmosphere, for sure. It has the claustrophobia and occasional creepiness of a survival horror without actually being one. The thing that annoys me about the audio logs is that there's no option (that I can see at least) to pause the game and listen to them. Sometimes I'll find them and there'll be alarms going off in the background from a camera I hacked spotting a baddie. Kinda ruins the mood/concentration, you know?

For the Plasmids/tonics and stuff, I guess I've just employed a KISS approach: Electric, Fire, and Ice seems to be enough to get through most anything (Ice works wonders on bots/turrets/cameras), with some occasional telekenesis for out-of-reach items or the Big Daddy that launches mines. I haven't messed much with the others. Most useful tonics have seemed to be the ones that makes hacking everything easier (I just use the auto-hacks for safes because... fuck them). Your way sounds funner though... I guess you used the enrage plasma and the stand-still invisible tonic? I will say the one real "strategy" I employed was the part where you're turning the wheel in the core room (or something) and you have to guard against the splicers coming in the two doors. So I just set about half a dozen trap wires on both sides and watched them come in one by one and die as they hit the wires. That was funny. Other than that, just shooting anything that moves is also a viable strategy.

I remember reading somewhere once that Raimi just hated the idea of Venom as a character, which is really weird to me because its not like the symbiote is that different of a concept from the deadites in Evil Dead and so on.

Yeah, you'd think Venom, being the closest thing in Spider-Man to a demon (with a wicked/campy sense of humor to boot), would be right up Raimi's alley. Venom was basically just the mirror image of Spider-Man. Both are similar in many ways, but Venom just takes those few extra steps to the dark side.

[Raxivace]

]Haven't seen Brain Powered, but I have heard the soundtrack because, y'know, Yoko Kanno and all. What's so bad about it that it'd deserve a hate watch? OST was dope.

Short answer is that Tomino was (Probably) mad about Evangelion's popularity and tried to do a similar kind of story about parent/child drama, convoluted world building etc. but while going full Tomino.

Unfortunately this was Victory Gundam/Garzey's Wing era Tomino, so him going full Tomino here resulted in a lot of incomprehensible nonsense and an arguably misogynistic ending note of "Actually the problem with society is women joining the work force".

I've enjoyed Bioshock a lot, actually, but Deus Ex really was one of my favorites back in the day. Like, if Deus Ex was a 9.5 for me, Bioshock's probably a solid 8/8.5. I do think the art deco designs are the best part. Great atmosphere, for sure. It has the claustrophobia and occasional creepiness of a survival horror without actually being one.

Ah that makes me feel better. :)

The thing that annoys me about the audio logs is that there's no option (that I can see at least) to pause the game and listen to them.

Oh that exists. On the pause/map menu there should be a tab called "Messages" or something where all the ones you've found are stored by area. If you mess around with the menu a bit you'll find it.

For the Plasmids/tonics and stuff, I guess I've just employed a KISS approach: Electric, Fire, and Ice seems to be enough to get through most anything (Ice works wonders on bots/turrets/cameras), with some occasional telekenesis for out-of-reach items or the Big Daddy that launches mines. I haven't messed much with the others. Most useful tonics have seemed to be the ones that makes hacking everything easier (I just use the auto-hacks for safes because... fuck them).

The Electric one I used a lot, though the Fire and Ice ones didn't get as much use from me (Though there's a tonic that allows your wrench to randomly freeze people upon contact that I just used instead). The telekinesis one I never used much.

Your way sounds funner though... I guess you used the enrage plasma and the stand-still invisible tonic?

Yeah the stand-still invisibility tonic, Enrage, Security Bullseye, and once I get it...Hypnotize Big Daddy. That last one is really ridiculously good. It's like Enrage, but specific to Big Daddies, and as long as its active (And you're not purposefully hurting them IIRC) they'll never turn on you even if you're the only other person in the room.

I will say the one real "strategy" I employed was the part where you're turning the wheel in the core room (or something) and you have to guard against the splicers coming in the two doors. So I just set about half a dozen trap wires on both sides and watched them come in one by one and die as they hit the wires. That was funny. Other than that, just shooting anything that moves is also a viable strategy.

Love me some trap wires. BioShock 2 allows gives you even more trap options like that, and its really fun to set up and plan out defensive options.

[Eva Yojimbo]

]Haven't seen Brain Powered, but I have heard the soundtrack because, y'know, Yoko Kanno and all. What's so bad about it that it'd deserve a hate watch? OST was dope.

Short answer is that Tomino was (Probably) mad about Evangelion's popularity and tried to do a similar kind of story about parent/child drama, convoluted world building etc. but while going full Tomino.

Unfortunately this was Victory Gundam/Garzey's Wing era Tomino, so him going full Tomino here resulted in a lot of incomprehensible nonsense and an arguably misogynistic ending note of "Actually the problem with society is women joining the work force".

I do remember hearing about it being his answer to NGE, much like Tarkovsky's answer to 2001 was Solyaris, and it kinda sucked too.

The thing that annoys me about the audio logs is that there's no option (that I can see at least) to pause the game and listen to them.

Oh that exists. On the pause/map menu there should be a tab called "Messages" or something where all the ones you've found are stored by area. If you mess around with the menu a bit you'll find it.

Ah, thanks for this. Wish I had known when I started. :/

For the Plasmids/tonics and stuff, I guess I've just employed a KISS approach: Electric, Fire, and Ice seems to be enough to get through most anything (Ice works wonders on bots/turrets/cameras), with some occasional telekenesis for out-of-reach items or the Big Daddy that launches mines. I haven't messed much with the others. Most useful tonics have seemed to be the ones that makes hacking everything easier (I just use the auto-hacks for safes because... fuck them).

The Electric one I used a lot, though the Fire and Ice ones didn't get as much use from me (Though there's a tonic that allows your wrench to randomly freeze people upon contact that I just used instead). The telekinesis one I never used much.

Dude, the ice on bots/turrets/cameras freezes them and slows down the hacking water-stuff to a crawl. Makes hacking ridiculously easy. Fire works really well once you get the tonic that upgrades its power. Plus, if you use fire on a Splicer near water, they'll jump in the water to put it out and then you can hit them with electricity and usually kill them instantly. Telekenesis can grab some hard to reach items, and for the Big Daddy that tosses the proximity mines, you can just catch them and throw it back!

Your way sounds funner though... I guess you used the enrage plasma and the stand-still invisible tonic?

Yeah the stand-still invisibility tonic, Enrage, Security Bullseye, and once I get it...Hypnotize Big Daddy. That last one is really ridiculously good. It's like Enrage, but specific to Big Daddies, and as long as its active (And you're not purposefully hurting them IIRC) they'll never turn on you even if you're the only other person in the room.

If I play through it again (it's a pretty short game) I'll keep those in mind. I tried using Hypnotize Big Daddy once, but there rarely seems to be one around when I know there's going to be a lot of enemies...

I will say the one real "strategy" I employed was the part where you're turning the wheel in the core room (or something) and you have to guard against the splicers coming in the two doors. So I just set about half a dozen trap wires on both sides and watched them come in one by one and die as they hit the wires. That was funny. Other than that, just shooting anything that moves is also a viable strategy.

Love me some trap wires. BioShock 2 allows gives you even more trap options like that, and its really fun to set up and plan out defensive options.

Yeah, this is what was cool about Deus Ex, the really planning your way through a level. So many options. I guess I feel like I'm really selling that game now... you know what? Screw it: go play Deus Ex and get back to me!

BTW, is there a way to unlock that Mystery Box thing in the Sander Cohen level? That's the only locked room/thing I haven't figured out how to get into.

[Raxivace]

Ah, thanks for this. Wish I had known when I started. :/

That's a real shame, there's some good stuff in those. :(

Dude, the ice on bots/turrets/cameras freezes them and slows down the hacking water-stuff to a crawl. Makes hacking ridiculously easy.

Lol, instead of doing that I just got so good at the hacking minigame that I'm some kind of near-savant at it now. I don't need the water slowed down at all, I only use just enough of those tonics that keep the puzzles from being literally unsolvable.

Fire works really well once you get the tonic that upgrades its power. Plus, if you use fire on a Splicer near water, they'll jump in the water to put it out and then you can hit them with electricity and usually kill them instantly.

Believe it or not, I don't think I knew this before.

Telekenesis can grab some hard to reach items, and for the Big Daddy that tosses the proximity mines, you can just catch them and throw it back!

Playing catch is fun, it's just not something I usually go out of my way to do.

I tried using Hypnotize Big Daddy once, but there rarely seems to be one around when I know there's going to be a lot of enemies...

Yeah you kind of have to kite them around sometimes to where you want to go, though usually I don't have too much trouble finding one.

Screw it: go play Deus Ex and get back to me!

Hmmm...maybe.

BTW, is there a way to unlock that Mystery Box thing in the Sander Cohen level? That's the only locked room/thing I haven't figured out how to get into.

Uh if its the one I'm thinking of...either Cohen will unlock it and give it to you himself upon completing his "masterpiece", or you kill him in either Fort Frolic or his apartment in Mercury Suites and take the key off of his corpse, go back to the box and just unlock it.

I keep him alive at least until going to his apartment anyways because in his apartment there's a Power to the People station in there, and you can't get in at all if he dies in Fort Frolic

[Derived Absurdity]

I don't know these other weird games you guys are talking about but Paper Mario fucking ruled. I remember just being completely blown away as a little kid by the fact that this was an actual world with actual townspeople and an actual economy and an actual storyline and stuff lol. The world was so complicated and immersive and vivid and I loved how you could do like three thousand things at once. It made it feel real, like it was almost an actual other place. I like other games but no other game holds a place in my heart as much as Paper Mario.

Ten Thousand Year Door is also good, but not as good. Haven't played any of the others.

[Raxivace]

One thing I really liked about Paper Mario was how clever some of the advertisements were for it.



But yeah, the game itself is just really fun and solid- the whole "Paper" theme was a weird choice but I liked how they really doubled down on it. The N64 didn't have much in the way of RPG's (Especially for English speaking countries) but Paper Mario made up for a lot.

[Raxivace]

198. The Revenge of Frankenstein (1958, Dir. Terence Fisher) - Victor is back, having escaped his execution at the end of the last movie and he's…hiding out somewhere as a mysterious town doctor, and the local medical board is jealous of him and want to strip him of his credentials.

Also he's trying to make another Monster. Let's be real though, the medical board drama is where its at.

In some ways it feels like a bit of watered down retread already of the first movie, but the goofy medical board stuff is kind of neat and Victor Frankenstein is probably already Cushing's best recurring role since it allows to ham and mug at the camera and other fun exaggerations.

199. The Evil of Frankenstein (1964, Dir. Freddie Francis) - Victor is back again, returning to his home village…only to find that his house has been taken over! He also finds that his Monster has been frozen underground (In a nod to the Universal movies)- he thaws it out, and teams up with a hypnotist to control it…only it seems the hypnotist has more control over the Monster than he does.

It's a fun movie- still in the mold of the of the earlier pictures though the angle with the hypnotist is neat (There's also a part where deaf maid-girl that befriends the Monster that's worth bringing up, though it felt a bit tertiary in the movie to me). Freddie Francis would go on to do better things though. He also directed Dracula Has Risen From the Grave (One of the better Hammer Draculas, though I'd have to watch it again to say whether I preferred it to Evil of Frankenstein or not), but he was also a pretty accomplished cinematographer. He would go to shoot The Elephant Man, Dune (I know some people have memed this into being some legendarily meritless film- while flawed it's not that bad and a lot of the visual design in it is actually great.), and The Straight Story for David Lynch, and the Cape Fear remake for Martin Scorsese. That's pretty cool.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Ah, thanks for this. Wish I had known when I started. :/

That's a real shame, there's some good stuff in those. :(

Well, it's not like I missed them completely. I could still listen, but there was often just distractions. Later on I found that if I brought up the Plasmid or Weapon menu that would silence any other sounds except the audio log. So I probably managed to listen to most everything in the second half-or-so without distraction.

Dude, the ice on bots/turrets/cameras freezes them and slows down the hacking water-stuff to a crawl. Makes hacking ridiculously easy.

Lol, instead of doing that I just got so good at the hacking minigame that I'm some kind of near-savant at it now. I don't need the water slowed down at all, I only use just enough of those tonics that keep the puzzles from being literally unsolvable.

Yeah, I noticed that without the tonics some hacks would literally be impossible, as in alarms/shocks blocking every possible path unless you managed to replace the very first tile. With some of those later tonics plus freeze hacking was super easy.

Telekenesis can grab some hard to reach items, and for the Big Daddy that tosses the proximity mines, you can just catch them and throw it back!

Playing catch is fun, it's just not something I usually go out of my way to do.

I also found out later in the game that apparently a lot of Splicers would go down with one hit from about anything you threw at them. Like, I threw a crate at one with tele. and it went down instantly.

Screw it: go play Deus Ex and get back to me!

Hmmm...maybe.

I really think you'd like it. Great atmosphere, in-depth storyline, lots of cool history and allusions and references to stuff like the Illuminati. You really do feel part of some huge conspiracy.

BTW, is there a way to unlock that Mystery Box thing in the Sander Cohen level? That's the only locked room/thing I haven't figured out how to get into.

Uh if its the one I'm thinking of...either Cohen will unlock it and give it to you himself upon completing his "masterpiece", or you kill him in either Fort Frolic or his apartment in Mercury Suites and take the key off of his corpse, go back to the box and just unlock it.

I keep him alive at least until going to his apartment anyways because in his apartment there's a Power to the People station in there, and you can't get in at all if he dies in Fort Frolic

That's the one (the bolded part). I got the one that he unlocks himself, but I guess I forgot to check his body after I killed him. :/

I finished the game a few days ago. Ending was cute and touching but rather brief. I'm not sure where the greatest video game of all time/video games as art thing comes from... the story seems a bit too simple/superficial for that level of hype, but it's definitely a solid FPS with some smoothly integrated RPG elements with a great art-design and atmosphere.

I don't think I've seen any of the recent horror films you've been watching. Any of them you'd highly recommend? I did see Mothra back when I briefly really into Godzilla. Don't remember much about it, but most of those Godzillas (save the original) have kinda blended together in my mind.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I plan on starting Witcher 3 tonight. In the past few days I also played the first Spider-Man DLC (The Heist). It was a solid addition, but nothing new/revolutionary. Mostly just slight tweaks to stuff in the main game with a new story involving Black Cat, which is fine by me since she's one of my favorite Spidey characters (the sexual tension between her and Spidey is always fun). It ends on a cliffhanger though since it's clearly the first part of a three part arc (I think the next two DLCs will be in November and December).

I will say that I like most of the small tweaks/changes they made. There's more collecting, but unlike in the main game you have to do a bit of hunting to find what you're looking for; there's more challenges (from Screwball this time), but here there are more things to focus on besides just time (and health/combos in the combat ones); there's a new chain-gun wielding baddie that's really tough; and the last mission has the most challenging combat in the game and a new tag-team stealth intro. So definitely a good start, even if nothing stands out as spectacular.