The Pitters' Place

I noticed there wasn't a thread yet.

on one hand I completely empathise with the woman's account and found it horrific. I think most people (straight cis men especially) are woefully underestimating how difficult it can be to say no, especially if the other person is stronger and/or more powerful than you, or just from a regular need to be polite and not hurt their feelings with a blatant rejection. I've been in a similar situation on a much smaller scale where eventually I explicitly said no, and he was a bit angry and hurt, which sucked, and I felt bad. Though by that point I would have felt worse if I'd agreed to go out with him.

but on the other hand I'm terrible at reading body language and non-verbal cues (though tbh I think repeatedly moving one's hand away is pretty obvious), and it makes me nervous how so many people are claiming that it should be obvious to anyone when their partner isn't into it. I don't think it's something I'd be able to tell, and it feels like penalising people for being bad at reading body language.

but on the third hand, people are insisting that this is why every single act needs to be enthusiastically consented to, though the idea of having to pause every few seconds to ask 'can I kiss you here? can I put my hand on your shoulder? can I touch your hair?' ... seems like it would very easily kill the mood, admittedly from someone who has never actually had sex and has no idea what that would be like. but apparently now if you don't do that it would mean you're potentially assaulting the other person, and lots of people are also commenting saying that consent is sexy and there's nothing hotter, so idk, maybe more people than I thought are really into being asked questions every few seconds. But then I always see couples kissing etc without asking first, like my brother and his girlfriend, and it doesn't seem right to categorise that as (potential) assault.

also nervous because does this mean that if someone doesn't ask you first (even if you were perfectly happy with whatever they did), it suggests they are a would-be rapist and is a warning sign you should break it off? But what if you really like that person?

why does consent have to be so complicated? :/

EDIT: huh this comic was actually really helpful. https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/07/me ... r-consent/

I think, at best, you could potentially forgive him for his (still shitty) behavior up until the point where she genuinely told him no. After which he told her they could stop and just "chill" for a bit and watched some Seinfeld. He then abruptly tried to take off her pants again and (I think?) shove his fingers down her throat (why would any man think this is ok to do with a woman who made no indication she likes it?). I think after that, it's very hard for me to see a convincing defense. She said no. He kept trying.

This is the best take on it:

https://twitter.com/studentactivism/sta ... 3996077056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't find any of his behaviour defensible, especially after she explicitly said no but as well as a lot of the stuff beforehand.

So while I definitely think he crossed that line, what I'm having trouble with is where exactly that line is between a genuine misjudgment and assault, and how someone can know for certain if they may have assaulted someone or been themselves assaulted.

e.g. if I'm on a date with someone and they kiss me without asking first, perhaps because the moment felt right, would it be assault even if I was perfectly happy to kiss them and/or had been waiting for a kiss at that moment? The idea of the exact same action being a crime or not depending solely on how the other person felt about it is what bugs me.

Or more recently, that person I mentioned in the other thread who has been sending me unsolicited photos of her naked body covered in shit along with provocative sexual comments (I got more of those today). I'm finding it extremely nauseating and feeling slightly violated, and would consider it harassment even though I haven't explicitly told her to stop (I'm trying to just ignore her emails). But if someone got off to that stuff and looked forward to more photos, it probably wouldn't be considered harassment.