Mass shootings and white nationalism

[Cassius Clay]

[youtube]https://youtube.com/watch?v=XdhIYWb3XVU&t=2368s[/youtube]

Since white nationalism has become more mainstream, the link between white supremacy/toxic masculinity and mass shootings has become more apparent. People have known this for years but aren't listened to...women have been pointing out that damn near every mass shooter has a history of domestic violence. Tho that vegas shooter remains a baffling one. As far as I know the guy had no history of violence.

[Cassius Clay]

And I realize that I despise the coddling of "economically anxious" racist whites because their energy is very similar to the energy of aggrieved mass shooters: angry they didn't get everything they were implicitly promised by society and so they lash out at innocent people...it's the mentality of a bully/online troll. Their anger is "real" but it's a narcissistic anger that's based on a lot of bullshit. Their fear and pain may be valid, but it's their narcissism that leads them to hurting innocent people. And we have to find a way to address the narcissism and the pain simultaneously.

[Cassius Clay]

It's infuriating that an obvious link between mass shooters, right-wing/fascistic/chauvinist attitudes, and zero-sum/narcissitc mentalities isn't taken seriously enough...until it's too fucking late. Wasn't the guy that committed the worst mass shooting in the world a straight up nazi? Dafuq is going on here? People keep getting slaughtered and we just shrug our shoulders and blame mental illness....except for when it's a Muslim of course.

[phe_de]

Since white nationalism has become more mainstream, the link between white supremacy/toxic masculinity and mass shootings has become more apparent. People have known this for years but aren't listened to...women have been pointing out that damn near every mass shooter has a history of domestic violence. Tho that vegas shooter remains a baffling one. As far as I know the guy had no history of violence.

I agree about toxic masculinity, but not about white suprematism. I doubt Omar Mateen and Seung-Hui Cho were white suprematists.

[Cassius Clay]

Why would pointing to Cho and Mateen suggest there is no link between mass shootings and white supremacy? Would it make sense to point out female mass shooters to counter the idea that there is a link between toxic masculinity and mass shooting? Hmmm?

I'm implying there's an obvious pattern, phe_de...not that literally every mass shooter is a white supremacist. The larger point is that almost every mass shooter has had right-wing/fascistic attitudes, which may be in the form of white supremacy or toxic masculinity or whatever.

[phe_de]

Here's a list from worldatlas with the deadliest shootings in history.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... story.html
I don't believe worldatlas is a right-wing site.

If your hypothesis is correct, meaning that the shooters display fascist tendencies, and developed them because they felt that they were implicitely promised something but didn't get it (aka "felt entitled"), then we need to check on the perpetrators.

Were they always members of the group with the most privilege in the country? Answer: Not when it comes to skin color or religious belief, but almost always when it comes to gender.
But if they were part of a "privileged" group: Were they underdogs within or perceived themselves as such? Answer: Often.
Were they always or mostly white? Answer: No.
But were they almost always male, and did they all live in countries with a long tradition of patriarchy? Answer: Yes. Even Norway, which has taken many measures for equality between men and women, but where male sexists still play an important role.

So I'm guessing that most of the mass shooters were indeed "entitled" males, and that toxic masculinity is the most important factor.
And if there are other factors, like feeling to deserve to be in the alpha group, then I wouldn't be surprised if these feelings of entitlement can also be attributed to toxic masculinity.

In fact, racism is a form of discrimination; a need to establish hierarchies, with yourself on top. Just like males in a patriarchal society. Since males are on average stronger than females, I wouldn't be surprised if most male racists became racists because of toxic masculinity. Because they felt that they should be superior in every aspect of life.
Without patriarchy, maybe there would be no racism. And no mass shootings. But that's just a hypothesis. Too bad there's no control group which we could check.

[Anakin McFly]

@phe_de - It's more about recent shootings in the US and how some of them have explicitly white supremacist causes, based on things the shooters themselves said.

[Cassius Clay]

I've been looking up mass shooters from the past few decades and it's wild how many of them held some kind of toxic, supremacist belief. Even one of the Columbine shooters had nazi shit in his journals. And obviously narcissistic misanthropes would be drawn to fascistic/authoritarian beliefs, but it's still insane that we can't put 2 and 2 together. The one thing they definitely all share is a deep hatred for people...because they base human value(including their own value) solely on power/hierarchy.

[Cassius Clay]

I think I need to get into criminal psychology or something cuz I'm fascinated by this shit. I almost studied psychology in school but a scholarship program I was in wouldn't let recipients major in any "soft sciences".

Some thoughts I've been trying to flesh out:

Some of the things I'm going to say might seem unremarkably true/obvious. Most of us might be familiar with the feeling of "selling out". The empty feeling you get in the pit of your soul when you sacrifice/compromise a principle for some external reward or specific, cynically-calculated outcome. The reward may temporarily feel good, but it's hollow because you traded your dignity/self-respect for an outcome that's ultimately superficial and exhaustive/demoralizing to maintain. I think people with narcissistic disorders basically have this internal dynamic on steroids...and are perpetually in this state. Inner confidence and contentment come from self-respect...which come from a commitment to your truth/values regardless of outcome. I think if you compromise yourself enough, you risk falling into a destructive cycle...where you seek out external validation/thrills/rewards/power because you feel shitty about yourself...but then you feel shitty about yourself because you've been compromising too much of yourself for those rewards. I've heard it said that dangerous narcissists have a toxic mix of an inferiority-complex and a superiority-complex, and I think this dynamic is how such a seemingly counterintuitive existence can come about. And I think the most dangerous, volatile people are self-hating/misanthropic power-seekers. I've heard it said that white supremacists(and passive white people in general) secretly harbor an inferiority-complex. That may be because somewhere, deep down they know they have sacrificed their souls for external power, validation and comfort. That's where the guilt-complex comes from and why they find it unbearable to be reminded of race. And the harder they hold onto power, for it's comfort, at the cost of the truth and humanity, the deeper they dig the hidden hole of self-hate. They are trapped until they honestly address this toxic relationship they have with their own value-system/judgements. Like I said, I think we've all been held hostage by this dynamic is some form or another...I think it's part of being human and growing into maturity. But narcissists are on the extreme end of the spectrum and are "stuck" in this childish state...and, depending on how deep the hole is dug, it's possible to fix/heal. I'm not saying anyone with insecurity issues is at risk of becoming a narcissist...but more like insecurity without healthy coping skills is a necessary ingredient...and narcissism is really a bizarre, synergistic relationship between entiltlement and insecurity...and it can be undercut(at least on an individual level) by developing a healthy, collaborative relationship with that "inner voice"(which I imagine becomes harder to hear the longer you've compromised it), and committing to a relationship with self that cultivates self-respect...prioritizing true, energizing self-respect, rather than superficial, exhausting external validation-seeking.

The narcissistic inferiority complex poisons their ability to relate to others because every single thing becomes a validation/power/zerosum game. That's where the misanthropy comes from. There's a difference between being misanthropic because of how cruel people can be to each other (which is merely a frustration with mankind that's at least rooted in compassion and a desire to see humans live peacefully) versus being misanthropic because everyone is a threat to your ego. Everyone and everything becomes a threat to the external validation they desperately rely on (they've become so lost and moved so far away from their truth that they don't know how to validate themselves through patient commitment to their values - they need that immediate/constant dopamine hit of external validation, or their self-hating existence becomes intolerable). And they lack the wisdom, self-compassion, faith, patience and resilience that would give them the insight to realize the internal mess they're exacerbating with their choices. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think people with various forms of this mentality tend to be reactionary and attracted to fascistic movements. Fascism resonates with them because 1) they have an irrational fear/hatred of others 2) it confirms/justifies their "dog-eat-dog" biases/fantasies about the world...which allows them to get validation/thrills through harm and subordination of others. Hurting others validates them and temporarily distracts them from their inner turmoil. Harm is the point.

The columbine shooters killed a dozen people but had enough ammunition to kill dozens. I suspect they left a lot of people alive because they were getting off on the terror, and you can't terrorize dead people. Witnesses recall hearing them say killing people was losing it's thrill. That's why they went out of their way to taunt people before killing them. They were getting off on having power over life and death, so whenever they left anyone alive, it wasn't some unexpected show of grace or mercy, it was more of an exercise of terror and power...like "your life or death is dependent on my whims". Pure sadism.

This brings me to my final thoughts and questions. I hate when people naively classify these types of people as "mentally ill". Are they mentally "healthy"? Of course not. Something is very wrong with the way they see themselves and others, but they still know the difference between right and wrong. It's just that their relationship with themselves perverts their relationship with right and wrong...and their whole value-system. When you're a self-hating narcissist, the pettiest slights become something worth killing over, and things that are important are treated as meaningless (like taking a life). But they still know right from wrong...they committed those crimes precisely because they know it's an atrocity, they know it's harm...that's why it's thrilling to do it. It's silly to imply that everyone who commits a violent, sadistic act is mentally ill. That's if by mental illness they mean not morally responsible for their actions.

Edit: This may seem naive, but I think mass shooters kill themselves not just to escape prosecution, but because their self-hatred is at it's peak in that moment and they literally can't live with themselves. They thought killing would make them feel better, and it did...temporarily, but they compromised their soul/humanity for an empty power thrill and deep down they know it wasn't worth it. They know on some level that they committed such an unnecessary atrocity because they were consumed by childish pettiness. And after that initial thrill is over, and the extreme sadism is no longer distracting them from themselves, they are left with an unbearable emptiness they didn't antipicate. They thought an extreme act of violence would finally make them gods, and give them the external validation they craved/deserved. But it seems the more they tried to dig themselves out through power, the deeper the hole got. So close to realizing the truth but never quite getting it.

I read a short story the other day about the final minutes of the columbine shooting. Columbine was the first I'd ever heard of mass shootings and it kinda fucked me up. I was in middle school and it made me dread going to high school. The terror worked. Something about that short story gave me a closure I didn't even realize I needed. It's a strange story because it makes you put yourself in those fucker's shoes without making excuses, justifying or lionizing their actions...the way a lot of disturbed/naive columbine sympathizers are prone to do. It instead showed what scared little boys the shooters were...and how ultimately pathetic and meaningless their goals/accomplishments were that day. Pathetic goals that cost themselves and their victims everything. I'll post it if I can find it. I knew it was well-written because some idiot commented that the author hadn't been sympathetic enough to Dylan and Eric lol...because they assumed that based on how the author puts the reader in the shoes of the shooters, that the overall tone would be sympathetic.

[Cassius Clay]

https://www.booksie.com/content/bill-pa ... /version/1

[Anakin McFly]

I've heard it said that white supremacists(and passive white people in general) secretly harbor an inferiority-complex. That may be because somewhere, deep down they know they have sacrificed their souls for external power, validation and comfort.

I agree with the inferiority complex, but not its cause, because one function of privilege is that it blinds you to those things. Privilege also gives power, validation and comfort without any need for soul sacrifice (or any sort of sacrifice), which I think is what directly leads to that insecurity. They know they have done nothing to deserve the good things they have.

With that knowledge comes the fear and tremendous insecurity that it could all be taken away, which then leads to aggressively pursuing racism/misogyny to justify their privilege and alleviate the internal dissonance by convincing themselves they do deserve those things.

So I don't think the shootings were pursued as a power thrill in and of themselves - that would involve more sociopathic glee than the burning anger more commonly witnessed - but a way for them to snatch back and reclaim the power they perceive is being stolen from them by women/minorities. I consider the shooting -> suicide to be part of the same unbroken arc of destruction, where the suicide was part of the plan all along and driven by the same self-loathing that drove the murders, rather than something that only happened when they couldn't live with themselves after what they'd done.

That model would also explain the Orlando Pulse shooting, given that the shooter was suspected of being gay himself. In this case that insecurity came from his internalised homophobia, and he blamed other gay people for it and furiously sought to destroy them for making him doubt himself.

[Cassius Clay]

Good point about privilege protecting you from having to make decisions that compromise your principles/values(I think it's more accurate to say it shields you from dealing with the consequences of the compromise that's been made...so you get to have your cake and eat it too). And the irony is that never being forced to make such decisions, because society is designed to shield one from the truth, is what makes one fragile and reactive(dependent on that external validation). Any hint of dissonance is unacceptable. Still, privilege is a double-edged sword and there is a compromise being made...in the sacrificing of authenticity for power/comfort. Knowing(yet denying) on some level that they've done nothing to deserve those things, particularly at the expense of others, is sacrificing authenticity...which feeds shame and insecurity. You ultimately cannot hide from the truth...it's always there somewhere. Whenever you compromise or ignore the authentic self in favor of a comforting, artificial reality...you create an internal dissonance that will never go away until you face the truth. And too many of us would rather endlessly chase our own tails to alleviate that dissonance...even if chasing power/comfort/validation destroys ourselves and everyone around us. When that internal dynamic is set up, you're trapped in a situation where facing the truth threatens the artificial self, and commitment to the artificial self damages the authentic self...because you are communicating that the authentic self is not worthy of existing/being acknowledged.

I didn't mean that shooters only decide to kill themselves after the fact. Suicide is definitely part of the plan...but I do suspect that their violent actions don't "fill that hole" inside them as much as they thought it would. And sociopathic glee and burning anger aren't mutually exclusive in this context. The sadistic glee is a cathartic expression of the burning anger. Columbine survivors have said Dylan seemed like he was having the time of his life.

[Cassius Clay]

To clarify something:

I don't mean to suggest truth/authenticity is necessarily at odds with external comfort/validation/power. That might lead to the false/self-harming idea that something that's painful must be true/valid/necessary ("truth hurts" mentality). And pain itself does not equal truth. Something may be painful because it challenges a comforting lie, but pain can also come from your humanity/authenticity being gaslit or neglected.

[Cassius Clay]

@anakin You also made a good point about the Orlando shooter. But to put it a different way: they scapegoat innocents for the self-hate/shame they feel. And don't take responsibility for the fact that much of their self-hate comes from not being true to themselves...then go on a wild goose chase trying to relieve the self-hate through violence/dominance.

"If all you people simply behaved in a way that catered to my artificial reality, I wouldn't hate myself so much."

^ That is what lies underneath all the rationales and mental gymnastics.

Because when your authentic self and artificial self are at odds, there are one of two ways to relieve the discomfort: 1) Childishly expect everyone to cater to your bs, so you have a constant stream of superficial validation 2) Grow up.

Privilege/power lets people get by choosing the former...since, the more influence you have, the more you can mold society to cater to your artificial reality. But if you're not powerful enough to mold society, yet are just as entitled, choosing the first option will only grow your self-hate and your resentment of others. Nice to know that this country is filled with entitled people like this, exploding with self-hatred and resentment, who have easy access to all the guns. I feel safe.

This is why entitled white folks who are getting fucked over by rich whites take it out on non-whites. They would rather alleviate the dissonance by holding on to a comforting lie...but the comforting lie isn't comforting at all. It's increasing their pain, self-hatred, and resentment....and they choose to scapegoat non-whites for this.

Edit: Your post helped clarify and flesh out some of my thoughts on this. Thanks for the reply.

[Cassius Clay]

Being extremely self-critical(yet lacking in self-awareness) is another piece of the puzzle. Dylan's mother says her son was very self-critical. Elliot Rodger seemed very self-critical...yet delusional. It's like they are extremely hard on themselves over petty things, yet lack introspection and responsibility with the things that matter. That mix is what helps feed the self-hate and simultaneously shift responsibility to others. They don't like they're authentic selves, and so they invest a lot of energy into external outcomes/validation....putting a lot of pressure on themselves to perform in ways that are externally validating...especially for things that shouldn't be a big deal. It's devastating to them if they don't get the outcome they desired(a faithful commitment to their authentic self/values would be validating regardless of outcomes). There are a lot of non-narcissistic people who are highly self-critical...but the difference is that they aren't entitled/delusional enough to blame innocents for their perceived failings.

Another link between narcissism and fascism is projection. Narcissists will accuse their targets of narcissism. Fascists accuse their enemies of fascism. This is sometimes because of conscious, malicious gaslighting...but it's also done because they lack self-awareness. If their targets don't treat them with the deference they think they deserve, it's because their targets are too "proud" and narcissistic. When vulnerable communities organize, fascists will point their fingers and call them authoritarian for daring to stand up for themselves.

A lot of white people saw Ali as narcissistic because of how unapologetically loud and brash he was. That was a projection of their own narcissism because what they didn't like was a young black man refusing to "know his place". Narcissists hate people, but if you watch the way Ali interacted with others, you see he had a deep, genuine love for people. He loved being around people, entertaining people, connecting with people. I know there are people who love entertaining others just so that they can be the center of attention, but that wasn't Ali. He was authentic.

[Cassius Clay]

You guys remember that asshole gogo? He had a lot of the qualities I've described here. Half the board thought he was just "quirky" and harmless, but that's because he was extremely manipulative. He pretended to be open to progressivism for a while, but last I heard he had gone full reactionary.

[Cassius Clay]

So, it should be obvious that I see fascism as a kind of collective narcissism, right?

I think a core idea I'm trying to flesh out is that mass shooters/narcissists/fascists are not so different from "normal" people. People reflexively use the mental illness label to otherize and individualize mass shooters, which means they don't have to take a hard look at themselves and larger society. Obviously mass shooters are terrible people, but I tend to believe that the average human mind is capable of both good and evil...and this is clearly shaped by environment. Fascist aspects of society create the right conditions for narcissism to flourish, which keeps fascism alive.

I think many of us have struggled(or are still) with some of the qualities described. Which is why I'm careful to add that just because you have a certain quality doesn't mean you're necessarily a narcissist or a bad person. Because I think narcissism is a toxic mix of some very specific qualities. But that mix can be cultivated by society. And it's scary to consider that you could have been a monster if some of your worst/self-destructive/selfish qualities had been cultivated more. It's easier to distance ourselves. Except if there really is a sickness in society that our human minds/temperaments are naturally vulnerable to, not facing it honestly will lead to our collective self-destructiion. This shit will keep happening.

[Cassius Clay]

To elaborate on the toxic "truth hurts" mentality I mentioned earlier. I can imagine someone like Trump invoking it to justify cruelty. Does he really believe it or is it empty justification? When it comes to narcissists, you can never really tell what they believe. The ends always justify the means...so they'll say or believe anything if it gets them what they seek. Instead of taking action based on real beliefs, it's like they create beliefs that justify action. But if you believed that authenticity can only disempower you and bring pain, it's easy to see why you wouldn't value truth. And if truth is meaningless, and is to be avoided, then life is about having power over truth. But the irony that people have always struggled with (and what narcissists are completely hostile to) is that great deal of pain/suffering comes from a denial of what you know is real. Truth can hurt, but it can also be empowering/invigorating depending on your relationship with it. Imagine having such a toxic relationship with truth and what that does to you. You'll spend your life running from the truth and/or masochistically embrace anything that hurts as true/valid/deserved. There are forces in our society that cultivate this toxic relationship. A toxic relationship the human mind is particularly vulnerable to (Buddhists have been talking about that shit since forever).

Edit: And, of course, once the idea that truth=pain is crystallized in you, it becomes self-reinforcing over time. Because the more energy you invest building your life around avoiding the authentic, the more uncomfortable your encounters with the authentic feel. The truth becomes a threat to the house of cards you've spent so much energy on building. It's one of those weird things that only becomes "real" once you believe and invest in it (kinda like social constructs). And since you think harm=valid, it'll be easier to internalize harmful, self-destructive ideas about yourself. Imagine wasting your life running around trying to avoid what could be empowering truths, because you've been conditioned to fear them...yet internalizing a bunch of random harmful shit that's probably not even true/valid/necessary. You would overreact to any perceived harm(real or not), since you know you internalize it so easily...and you wouldn't let yourself be healed by healing truths...because you don't trust the truth. Yikes. This is part of the human condition. If I'm right, narcissists are experiencing this on a more intense level, then rely on grandiosity as a coping mechanism. Letting Trump have the nuclear codes might be the end of all things. A lot of libs for some reason are really confident that charging Trump with serious crimes, like treason, will end positively. But the more he's cornered, the more I fear he's going to do something drastic.

[Cassius Clay]

Unjust power teaches us via gaslighting to associate truth and harm. Because truth threatens them. Speaking truth to them is "harm", but the real harm they commit is "true"...valid/fair/just/natural. That's how you can have an entire industry functioning with an "open secret" about a powerful producer harassing and raping actresses for decades. Even in our own families, we are pressured to bury truths, even at our own expense, to protect more powerful family members...or to protect family reputation. This is how we are groomed from birth to internalize this destructive idea...to protect abusers. Then some of us who internalize this idea - depending on our proximity to power, our role models and our coping-mechanisms - often go on to become monsters and abusers as well.

[Cassius Clay]

Goddamn nobody has any ideas? Am I the only mothafucka left in this bitch? Guess I can start talking shit about everyone. *cups hands around mouth* BRUCE IS A HO ASS BITCH!

(reminder to elaborate on different
types authenticit...trump/charisma/Ali)

[Gendo]

Everyone knows that parents have no free time to be responding to stuff on message boards. Ignore the fact that I'm still posting about movies I'm watching, though.

[Cassius Clay]

My condolences

[Derived Absurdity]

I'll read this essay when I get the time and energy. And when I do you'd better believe I'll say something profound and incisive.

In the meantime I'll just remind everyone here that I just penned two lengthy and super-interesting book reviews with a lot of potential for discussion which no one has responded to, so.

[Raxivace]

I read your reviews DA. I just don't know enough about the history of employment in the US or the Democratic Party to give them a real response.

[phe_de]

I'll read this essay when I get the time and energy. And when I do you'd better believe I'll say something profound and incisive.

In the meantime I'll just remind everyone here that I just penned two lengthy and super-interesting book reviews with a lot of potential for discussion which no one has responded to, so.

On the "Literature" subforum, in a thread started three years ago, about a different book.

[Derived Absurdity]

Wow, thanks for the info.

[Derived Absurdity]

I read your reviews DA. I just don't know enough about the history of employment in the US or the Democratic Party to give them a real response.

Wanting to make sure you're well-informed on something before giving your opinions on that thing... on the Internet. It's a ballsy strategy, Rax, I'll give you that.

[Cassius Clay]

Notes:

Insecurity/petty-power-struggle/judgement/shame/guilt-induced-blame-shifting(blame-focused)/resentment

Imbalance of authenticity: fundamental inauthenticity and lack of responsibility/self-awareness leading to resentment and desire for cathartic expression/validation of misguided resentment. Deciding to be "authentic" when it's convenient(maintaining power)...at last minute...due to buildup of self-created frustrated.

Commitment to authenticity at it's purest => clearer connection to values. Less ininterested in power/blame/control for it's own sake

Formless self-respect/compassion derived simply from acknowledgement/committed-understanding of a simple, unavoidable, blameless truth(clear-eyed/blameless respect for natural consequences of ignoring what is...as well as a blameless, grudgeless respect/acceptance for potential consequences of acknowledging truth) versus tension/highstakes/expectation/outcome/struggle/blame blah blah - resistance to a fundamental truth - human capacity for self-deception must be adaptive. Denial = an implicit judgement of what is...first stage of attempting to exercise will/power/control over truth/what-is. Opens up to snowball of judgement/blame/struggle/shame/guilt/resentment(internal to external).

Charisma as attraction due to implicit encouragement/validation of perceived "authentic"(or hidden) self. Validation gang/cynical(shallow) charisma capitalizing on worst/misguided parts of people versus genuine inspiration.

[Cassius Clay]

Boomers believe the wildest conspiracies because 1) their brains and integrity have rot from a lifetime of being trained/encouraged/coddled to prioritize power/external-validation at expense of truth 2) they weren't raised on the internet so lack skills to critically analyze/judge/parse/navigate the validity of massive amounts of information(not checking multiple sources, not understanding irony in text form due to lacking general context/culture, taking everything literally, confused by memes). They're overwhelmed so they just latch onto the first thing that confirms a bias.

These motherfuckers get fooled by fox news. Can you imagine what the internet has done to their brains?

[Cassius Clay]

Note:

Not merely making a compromise for reward....fundamental issue is in trying to have it both ways. Wanting all of the pros and none of the cons of two opposing choices/realities...where the fundamental break with reality and authenticity begins.

That's one of the things that's particular ugly about oppression/abuse. If you want to a piece of shit, at least own it and accept the consequential realities of your choices. Instead of being a gaslighting weasel...pissing on heads and calling it rain.

[phe_de]

Cassius Clay

After reading your last posts and trying to understand them, I am not surprised that you don't get many replies.
Your writing style is... challenging. To use a neutral word. Especially for people who are not native speakers of English, like me.
And I'm pretty sure you are violating the rules of grammar taught in school.

Two examples from your last post:
"Not merely making a compromise for reward....fundamental issue is in trying to have it both ways."
This sentence does not have a subject. Are you talking about yourself, or about boomers, or about mass murderers?
It's not clear from the context.

"If you want to a piece of shit, at least own it and accept the consequential realities of your choices."
I assume you meant to say "If you want to be a piece of shit". But technically it may as well mean "If you want a piece of shit", meaning you are blaming the victim.

And before you say that I should learn to read between the lines: I believe that if it's not written, it's not said.
Reading between the lines is for conspiracy theorists, or for dogs who hear whistles.
At least that's my opinion.

[Cassius Clay]

Those posts are for myself.

English not being your native language isn't the primary cause of your habitual confusion, phe_de.

[phe_de]

Those posts are for myself.

English not being your native language isn't the primary cause of your habitual confusion, phe_de.

If it's not the language that causes confusion, then it's probably the message.
What does this say about the person delivering the message?

Maybe the following quote attributed to Albert Einstein is not wrong.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"

[Cassius Clay]

Phe_de, my man..you consistently make very strange and irrelevant interpretations of other people's posts...yet lack the humility to seriously consider that you might be the problem and learn from it.

If you're having trouble understanding it, maybe it wasn't meant for you. I'm trying to work through some thoughts that I normally would process privately, but I decided to post it because it's relevant to a lot of things we've talked about here, and I wanted to see if some feedback might help. Anakin's feedback helped clear something up for me. You might have something valuable to contribute.....one of these day's.

[phe_de]

Phe_de, my man..you consistently make very strange and irrelevant interpretations of other people's posts...yet lack the humility to seriously consider that you might be the problem and learn from it.

If you're having trouble understanding it, maybe it wasn't meant for you. I'm trying to work through some thoughts that I normally would process privately, but I decided to post it because it's relevant to a lot of things we've talked about here, and I wanted to see if some feedback might help. Anakin's feedback helped clear something up for me. You might have something valuable to contribute.....one of these day's.

Well, you did write this:

Goddamn nobody has any ideas? Am I the only mothafucka left in this bitch? Guess I can start talking shit about everyone. *cups hands around mouth* BRUCE IS A HO ASS BITCH!

So I thought I'd give you feedback.
Also, I assume that anything on a message board is for everybody who reads it.

And honestly, your writings about mass shooters and narcissism, entitlement, and supremacy... A lot looked like amateur psychology to me. Like you have a theory made up in your head and interpret the facts in a way to fit your theory.

I'm not a psychologist, and don't pretend to be one. I would not assume to know what goes on in a mass murderer's head.

I also don't know your qualifications in psychology.
If you are a professional psychologist, and have studied various theories about why mass shooters become mass shooters, and have a scientific foundation for why your theory offered here is the most likely one, then I apologize.
But if you're not, then maybe it's you who need to learn some humility.

[Cassius Clay]

Yes, inquisitive speculations on a dead message board about the motivations of a terrifying epidemic(in my country) - that's been going on for decades, that's accelerating, and there seems to be no solution on the horizon for(while those pointing out patterns get ignored) - is the height of hubris.

On the other hand...pompous, unsolicited, and irrelevant criticisms of my "grammar" about posts that - if you didn't have your head so far up your ass - should be obvious were not exactly meant for you to understand...that's just fine.

[phe_de]

Yes, inquisitive speculations on a dead message board about the motivations of a terrifying epidemic(in my country) - that's been going on for decades, that's accelerating, and there seems to be no solution on the horizon for(while those pointing out patterns get ignored) - is the height of hubris.

On the other hand...pompous, unsolicited, and irrelevant criticisms of my "grammar" about posts that - if you didn't have your head so far up your ass - should be obvious were not exactly meant for you to understand...that's just fine.

Fair enough.

[Cassius Clay]

Grievance/resentment...making things even...catching up/revenge...stuck in past versus letting go of what's past and being true to self/values in the now(often bastardized to somehow mean not dealing with current/active problems)...when one fails to be authentic to self in the present, a desire to correct leaves one stuck in past(attempting to exercise power over what has passed). Less adversarial/antagonistic. Dominating/controlling aspects of past and future that cannot be changed while ignoring/devaluing choices one can make in the present.

Being "true" to present resentments still = being stuck in the past. Resentments often arise from avoidance/suppression of truth to avoid conflict/harm/etc. If source of resentment is valid, examine and commit to the underlying/value in the present...rather than allowing resentment to build then trying to get even/make things fair after moment is past.

[Cassius Clay]

Me this entire thread:



I can't get my pattern-recognizing brain to shut the fuck up. I realize that's why I'm good with faces...and why music sticks with me. I watched a movie Triangle recently and so much of the plot and themes seemed relevant to the shit I've been writing here. And I even see connections to poker philosophies. For example, one of the biggest mistakes even good players make is getting caught up in trying to get "even"(keeping score), rather than putting irrelevant aspects of the past behind them and making the best, long-run decision for the moment. Please send help.

[Cassius Clay]

Keeping score...collecting wrongs/guilt/shoulds that need "correcting" in order to maintain dignity/self-respect/love(artificial self). As collection grows, so does pressure/desperation. Wasting limited focus and energy on what's past, while neglecting the simple dignity one gets from being true to moment. Dignity of moment at odds with dignity of past/collection...depending on where value is placed/invested.

Everyone holds grudges and guilt, but narcissists have collected an overwhelming mountain of wrongs/guilt/shame..which their self-esteem is dependent on them. "correcting". Which they never can, setting themselves up for failure...then desperate/selfish coping-mechanisms are used.

Not realizing they can let go of this mountain they've invested so much of their time/energy/identity in. Needing permission to be compassionate to self and forgive/unburden self of the debt...committing to present...starting fresh.

[Cassius Clay]

Paradox of confidence...from the tension between inner and outer confidence/esteem

Prioritizing self-image/esteem(including how one feels they are perceived by others) at the expense of truth/values ironically damages self-image. Commitment to your values/truth, even if risking damage to your self-image, ironically improves self-image. Good self-image is a positive side-effect, when it's not treated as the main goal.

Western consumer/indulgent culture teaches us to make good self-image/confidence/comfort/power/dopamine rewards the priority at the expense of reality.

[Derived Absurdity]

Man, you still going on?

[Gendo]

Man, you still going on?

Do you remember Isha?

[Cassius Clay]

At least I'm writing in English...for the most part.

[Cassius Clay]

Prioritisation of artificial image/reward/collection corrodes appreciation of one's own individual humanity as well as the individuality of others.

Fundamental framework/belief...never deserving....unless. Making humanity dependent on external, unreliable sources...which, even if granted, is ultimately artifice.

Deserving/undeserving vs reality of situation/present moment

Endless war of the deserving vs undeserving

Interactions with others can, depending on your history, trigger which path to take/or which part of self is prioritized. When interacted with in an adversarial/highstakes way, you're more likely to lose sight of the humanity/individuality you share(yours and theirs)...buying into an unnecessary power struggle.

All understanding truths/causal-paths can be corrupted by the subjective axis of deserving. Making it harder to see through it. Every single thing I've written here can be corrupted by the very thing I'm attempting to deconstruct. Similar to how I once had a conversation about playing the blame-game/being defensive/adversarial in an attempt to improve communication...but the convo was almost impossible to have because the person treated everything I said as an accusation, and became adversarial...which in turn triggered my own adversarial/defensive instinct.

[Cassius Clay]

To recognize your own humanity/individuality is to recognize the humanity of others. To dehumanize others reflects back on you because it means you are buying into a heirarchal, often-arbitrary framework regarding who is deserving of and granted humanity and who isn't. Who is valid and who isn't. Buying into the framework guarantees that there are ways you will come up short, but even when you qualify, it is shallow and obscuring of your individuality.

Either develop your own framework divorced from power/external rewards(being true to self/values without agenda is internally rewarding) or drop frameworks altogether...and commit to not allowing your's and other's humanity/individuality/validity to be conditional.

[Cassius Clay]

Deconstruction of artifice without faith/commitment/purpose/risk/authenticity/openness/passion (an anchor/guide to replace previous attachment) leaves a vacuum which is immediately filled by what was just deconstructed. Because even when deconstruction of inauthentic intention is technically accurate, if the primary intention/priority of said deconstruction is control at the expense of real/vulnerable...it only reinforces itself.

[BruceSmith78]

Are you trying to talk yourself out of a mass shooting?

[Derived Absurdity]

lol

[Cassius Clay]

Are you trying to talk yourself out of a mass shooting?

Lol you bastard

And I was just thinking about that quote about fighting monsters and staring into the abyss.

I'm the Blade of mass shooters.