UK Election

Ptolemy_Banana · Post by **Ptolemy_Banana** » Thu May 07, 2015 7:03 pm

A friend of mine put it best on facebook yesterday:

"Right, I know everyone's entitled to their political opinions etc. but if you vote Tory or UKIP tomorrow, you are a fucking dickhead. Simple as. "

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 7:03 pm

Agreed. That's why I voted English Democrats.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 7:04 pm

But srsly, I voted Green Party. Labour are pretty much guaranteed the win in my home town, so I wanted to show my support for the party I actually agree with on most policies.

Ptolemy_Banana · Post by **Ptolemy_Banana** » Thu May 07, 2015 7:06 pm

Good man. If you're a dickhead, it's for reasons other than your vote.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 7:12 pm

I am and it is

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:09 pm

Voting green is pretty much an admission that you wear a dress and high heels.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:22 pm

As is my right

But seriously, they're a better party than UKIP and the Conservatives. Lib Dems have ruined any credibility they may have had by joining with the Cons. My union support Labour, and i'll be happy enough if/when they win, but I side with the Greens on more policies than any other main party

Post by **aels** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:31 pm

That's true though. I voted Green. Seats in Cornwall have always been Lib Dem up until the past ten years when they've gone between Lib Dem and Tories. I'll never vote Tory and I voted Lib Dem last time and look what fucking happened so I went Green. Green are the party whose principles I most align with. I didn't ask my dad who he voted for but I wondered if he went for Mebyon Kernow as a Why The Fuck Not vote.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:44 pm

Our Labour candidate is a 33? yr old woman. I felt I should vote for her for 2 reasons. 1) she is a Labour candidate and I like some of their policies B) She is a young woman and I worry that fact might cost her votes. But then I went and betrayed her anyway. I'll back her up next time, maybe. If there is one.

Post by **aels** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:51 pm

The only woman standing in my area is standing for Labour as well. I could have been tempted to vote Labour, it was basically between Labour and Green but I like Green better.

phe_de · Post by **phe_de** » Thu May 07, 2015 8:55 pm

Does the UK still have single-winner voting?
If they do, I am not expecting the result to be in any way representative of what the people want.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:01 pm

We're likely gonna end up with Labour/SNP in power together.

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:05 pm

According to Channel 4's polls Labout/SNP won't have enough votes to outdo the Tories.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:07 pm

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:10 pm

They currently have it at Tories 316 seats, Labour 239, SNP 58. So they're about 19 seats short.

Ukip at 2 seats, Lib Dems at 10, Other at 25(including Sinn Fein MPs)

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:14 pm

Yeah just checked. Goddamnit, how the fuck did the Conservatives get that many seats back? People are idiots. Democracy doesn't work

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:19 pm

They were saying that the Tories basically stole most of the Lib Dem seats, and also Ukip didn't do very well. Whereas while the SNP made big gains they were all at the expense of Labour.

The exit polls could be wrong though.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:24 pm

Apparently my home town is an important seat for the Tories to try and keep. At least, according to the Mirror

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:29 pm

My seat is a safe Labour one, so there's really no mystery about who will win.

Post by **aels** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:36 pm

Blade Azaezel wrote:Apparently my home town is an important seat for the Tories to try and keep. At least, according to the Mirror

I got a letter from David Cameron about how my town's seat is a really important one for the Tories and how we totally totally need to vote Tory and I laughed a cackling laugh because fuck off, dishface.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Thu May 07, 2015 9:39 pm

I regret voting Green

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Thu May 07, 2015 11:00 pm

Bunch of fucking socialists. Even your Tories are a bunch of whiners.

Post by **aels** » Thu May 07, 2015 11:26 pm

I can never tell if you're joking or if we should break up

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:19 am

Well looks like the UK's fucked up for another five years. 12 billion in cuts to benefits, continued austerity, the NHS is likely going to be ruined, more foodbanks popping up, the poorest 10% now even poorer. All because people have been sold the bullshit story that, because Labour were in power when the recession hit, it's their fault.

Post by **aels** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:42 am

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:50 am

I'm wondering how it's happened though. I thought the Conservatives/Labour were neck and neck going into it, according to the polls. Even if we gave all the SNP votes to Labour, they still would be behind labour. I'm guessing they've benefitted from split votes in seats where UKIP and the Lib Dems didn't do enough to win.

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:32 am

It's also intriguing that a number of big names have lost their seats. Ed Balls, Vince Cable, Danny Alexander, George Galloway(Thank fuck), Simon Hughes, Charles Kennedy.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:33 am

Cons won UKIP and Lib Dem votes. Labour lost to SNP votes. Fecking useless.

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Fri May 08, 2015 12:17 pm

I think it shows how broken FPTP is also. It works when you have two main parties, but it's kinda unfair otherwise.

I mean, the SNP got 5% of the vote. They have 56 seats. The Lib Dems got 8% of the vote. They currently have 8 seats. This election has convinced me we need a new voting system. Not that we'll get it.

OurGloriousLeader · Post by **OurGloriousLeader** » Fri May 08, 2015 5:36 pm

SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!
SNP!!

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 5:53 pm

I don't care about Scotland leaving within the next five years, but it'll be a shame seeing the NHS stripped and sold off for parts.

They should let England vote on whether or not we want the Scots to stay

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:07 pm

To me this thread sounds like a bunch of whiney Brits complaining about how awesome their lives are.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:09 pm

We get it, your country is shit

and now, so is ours.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:13 pm

Naaaah... I have no idea how to fix economical problems. But it doesn't sound too bad.

I mean. The austerity thing. That is just how it is going to be for a while anywhere in Europe. It wouldn't matter who you voted for. Look at Greece.

You people don't know what shit is anyway.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:21 pm

If you're going to play the "stop complaining about your country because someone else has it worse off", I will start replying to every one of your posts with a photo of a dying African child

and the whole austerity thing could have been avoided by voting for anyone other than the Conservatives. Our NHS is likely to be sold off to private companies, taxes lowered for the rich whilst more of the lowest earners fall below the poverty line, benefits are slashed which makes the lives of hundreds of thousands much harder. Less foreign aid spent too. harsher crackdown on immigration as well, I'd imagine.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:33 pm

I didn't know I was playing or contradicting you.

I was just saying.... You'll survive.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:37 pm

Well yes, I will survive. I am middle class, with a relatively well off family to support me. I also work at a large national company which offers relative job security. I have a degree level education that will look good to future employers. However, there are millions in this country who are going to have their lives made a whole lot tougher by the fact the Conservatives are in power. Whilst the effects will be a great inconvenience to me, at worst, they're going to be brutal for them. That's why I'm annoyed. Yet again, the British electorate have proven they're a bunch of fecking morons who don't seem to give a toss about anyone else.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Fri May 08, 2015 6:42 pm

I meant you as a country.
Sorry if my optimism annoyed you. I just wanted to make fun of you people.

I apologize if it was inappropriate.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:30 pm

Meh, I was mid rant. I really dislike the Tories

Ptolemy_Banana · Post by **Ptolemy_Banana** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:40 pm

Hey, at least Nigel Farage didn't get elected. Also, Paddy Ashdown said he'd publicly eat his hat if an exit poll turned out to be correct, which it did. Given his history as an SBS officer I think he'll manage it without difficulty, and then be made a duke or something.

Ptolemy_Banana · Post by **Ptolemy_Banana** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:42 pm

Whitey wrote:I'm wondering how it's happened though. I thought the Conservatives/Labour were neck and neck going into it, according to the polls.

There are a lot of people who are too embarassed to tell even a perfect stranger that they're voting Conservative, but who voted Conservative.

Ptolemy_Banana · Post by **Ptolemy_Banana** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:46 pm

Whitey wrote:I think it shows how broken FPTP is also. It works when you have two main parties, but it's kinda unfair otherwise.

I mean, the SNP got 5% of the vote. They have 56 seats. The Lib Dems got 8% of the vote. They currently have 8 seats. This election has convinced me we need a new voting system. Not that we'll get it.

The SNP got 50% of the vote in Scotland, but won 56 out of 59 seats. It's like the whole country was a single first past the post constituency. If that doesn't highlight a problem with the system I don't know what will.

Post by **OpiateOfTheMasses** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:54 pm

I realise this isn't going to be popular, but given the options that we had I think this is not too bad a result. Personally I was hoping for another Tory/Lib Dem coalition, but I'll settle for a straight Tory government.

Labour - in particular Ed Milliband - gave me no confidence whatsoever when it came to the economy. He repeatedly promised not to raise taxes, not to borrow more than the Tories and to somehow spend more. All three of these things cannot simultaneously be true. So he was either delusional/idiotic or he was flat out lying and hoping no-one would notice. Neither option gives me confidence that he was the right guy to be in charge of the economy.

Now there are lots - and I mean lots - of things I don't like about the Tories (I didn't vote for them and that's also why I was hoping for the Lib Dem coalition again to try to inject a modicum of humanity into the government), but if you don't make the painful decisions now to sort the economy out then you are dooming the country to many, many more years of stagnation and ineffectiveness. It's better to rip the plaster off as quickly as possible and then get on with things.

Living in a fairy tale world where we can spend as much as we like and worry about paying it back later (or even better - getting out kids to pay it back) is a large part of what's got us (and Greece... and Spain... and many others) into the current mess.

Many people opposed to the Tories claim that people support the Tories because they self-centred and want a tax cut. But I'd argue the opposite - Labour's too scared to raise taxes so there's no huge downside from a tax point of view for most of to voting Labour. On the other hand, Labour (and for that matter so do Plaid Cymru, the SNP and the Green Party) do want to spend money we don't have and they don't care about how/if/when we're going to pay it back - that's a future government's problem, not theirs. So their supporters are scared to take the responsibility of trying to sort out the longer term problems themselves and only want to kick the can down the street and get an easy and popular short term solution.

(End of rant)

Post by **OpiateOfTheMasses** » Fri May 08, 2015 9:57 pm

Ptolemy_Banana wrote:
Whitey wrote:I think it shows how broken FPTP is also. It works when you have two main parties, but it's kinda unfair otherwise.

I mean, the SNP got 5% of the vote. They have 56 seats. The Lib Dems got 8% of the vote. They currently have 8 seats. This election has convinced me we need a new voting system. Not that we'll get it.
The SNP got 50% of the vote in Scotland, but won 56 out of 59 seats. It's like the whole country was a single first past the post constituency. If that doesn't highlight a problem with the system I don't know what will.

An even starker example is UKIP who got more than twice as many votes as the SNP but only got one MP.

I'm not a fan of either the SNP or UKIP, but it certainly highlights the colossal inadequacies of FPTP.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:16 pm

On the other hand, Labour (and for that matter so do Plaid Cymru, the SNP and the Green Party) do want to spend money we don't have and they don't care about how/if/when we're going to pay it back

That's how inflation happens. Look at Venezuela for the effects of inflation. Surely, everyone has free education and health but toilet paper costs a fortune.

Consider my opinion since I'm socialist. The way you save the NHS is investing in prevention programs. I don't know how the UK does their health but I think all of Europe invests in preventive medicine, so if that keeps up, no matter how much they cut, it will survive. Unless they cut in preventive... then you guys are fucked. So what I'm trying to tell you with this is... Start flossing!

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:26 pm

OpiateOfTheMasses wrote:I realise this isn't going to be popular, but given the options that we had I think this is not too bad a result. Personally I was hoping for another Tory/Lib Dem coalition, but I'll settle for a straight Tory government.

Labour - in particular Ed Milliband - gave me no confidence whatsoever when it came to the economy. He repeatedly promised not to raise taxes, not to borrow more than the Tories and to somehow spend more. All three of these things cannot simultaneously be true. So he was either delusional/idiotic or he was flat out lying and hoping no-one would notice. Neither option gives me confidence that he was the right guy to be in charge of the economy.

Now there are lots - and I mean lots - of things I don't like about the Tories (I didn't vote for them and that's also why I was hoping for the Lib Dem coalition again to try to inject a modicum of humanity into the government), but if you don't make the painful decisions now to sort the economy out then you are dooming the country to many, many more years of stagnation and ineffectiveness. It's better to rip the plaster off as quickly as possible and then get on with things.

Living in a fairy tale world where we can spend as much as we like and worry about paying it back later (or even better - getting out kids to pay it back) is a large part of what's got us (and Greece... and Spain... and many others) into the current mess.

Many people opposed to the Tories claim that people support the Tories because they self-centred and want a tax cut. But I'd argue the opposite - Labour's too scared to raise taxes so there's no huge downside from a tax point of view for most of to voting Labour. On the other hand, Labour (and for that matter so do Plaid Cymru, the SNP and the Green Party) do want to spend money we don't have and they don't care about how/if/when we're going to pay it back - that's a future government's problem, not theirs. So their supporters are scared to take the responsibility of trying to sort out the longer term problems themselves and only want to kick the can down the street and get an easy and popular short term solution.

(End of rant)

I'd tend to agree. I thought all our choices this year were bad. I wish the Lib Dems hadn't let us down so badly, I wish they were more electable. Last time they were the one party I felt I could vote for, but they screwed the pooch.

Like you, I had no confidence in a Labour government to solve the economy, they have no plan worth a damn, their plan was to not be the Tories. That's not a plan. As shitty as it might be austerity is slowly going to to work, you'd tell someone in debt they had to cut their spending, so do the government. It will fucking suck for a lot of people for a while. If Labour had put up a plan which sounded viable to boost the economy without austerity I'd have put aside my bias against them and voted for them. Not that it would matter as the Labour MP got nearly 55% of the vote on my constituency without my vote. My hope is that the Lib Dems recover under a new leader, and someone with more humanity than the Tories gets in next time once the economy is in a better place. Once the economy is better that'll make more sense. And hopefully Labour pick someone less objectionable as their leader, I'd not hate Chuka Umunna too much for example.

The Tories basically won because nobody else had any better ideas that were plausible to fix the economy. And while there are so many other policies that the Tories are bad on, we need to fix the economy. So while I'm quite certain I wouldn't be happy with ANY outcome this election, a Tory win is not one of my more hated outcomes.

Post by **OpiateOfTheMasses** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:39 am

Whitey wrote:I'd tend to agree. I thought all our choices this year were bad. I wish the Lib Dems hadn't let us down so badly, I wish they were more electable. Last time they were the one party I felt I could vote for, but they screwed the pooch.

I thought the reaction that Lib Dems got was a harsh - and perhaps even a bit naïve...

What were they meant to do in 2010? Let the country limp on with a minority government that wouldn't be able to achieve anything when it was at the height of an economic crisis? Or form a government and try to help resolve the situation?

And a lot of the anger is because they formed the government with the Tories. Well that's the way the arithmetic worked out - they couldn't have formed a government with Labour so it was the only option. Again - what did people want them to do?

The rest of the anger was because they didn't implement all the points on their manifesto. Well neither did the Tories. Grow up - that's the nature of a coalition. You have to compromise and you don't get to implement all your policies - particularly when you're the smaller partner. If Labour had go into power yesterday with the help of the SNP then you'd see Labour compromising on a whole bunch of their promises.

I want electoral reform - so do a lot of people. And if we do ditch FPTP we're going to see a lot more coalitions (probably nothing but coalitions) so we're going to have to get used to parties not even trying to deliver everything on their manifesto when they enter government because their coalition partners won't let them. So we're all going to have accept compromise a lot more and not throw our toys out of the pram every time.

So everyone now bemoaning the Tory government after proudly saying that they didn't vote Lib Dem because they let us down last time partly have themselves to blame for what's to come - they've helped the Tories pick up all those Lib Dem seats and give them the outright majority...

(end of second rant)

Post by **aels** » Sat May 09, 2015 8:30 am

Blade Azaezel wrote:Well yes, I will survive. I am middle class, with a relatively well off family to support me. I also work at a large national company which offers relative job security. I have a degree level education that will look good to future employers. However, there are millions in this country who are going to have their lives made a whole lot tougher by the fact the Conservatives are in power. Whilst the effects will be a great inconvenience to me, at worst, they're going to be brutal for them. That's why I'm annoyed. Yet again, the British electorate have proven they're a bunch of fecking morons who don't seem to give a toss about anyone else.

Amen. I'm disabled and currently rely on the charity of family to keep me off disability benefits and I wake up at night with my heart racing at the knowledge that one day I'm almost certainly going to have to rely on a welfare state that is being systematically dismantled. I also live in the poorest part of the UK, in one of the top ten poorest regions in Western Europe, with wages well-below average and with the biggest (or it was last time I looked) disparity between income and house prices in the country. My town is working class and achingly poor, we have high levels of deprivation and children living below the poverty line. I work for a non-profit and we routinely work with disabled people, with homeless people, with unemployed people. The knowledge that my country, as a whole, is wealthy and developed means fucking nothing to me when the number of people here relying on food banks to feed their families has tripled in a year.

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:19 am

I'm just worried about the damage the Tories will leave for the next government come 2020. Because I really don't think they'll remain in power after that.

Post by **aels** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:33 am

A friend of mine from school just wrote an 800 word FB... thing on that very subject. That the Tories are going to fuck everything over so comprehensively that it's going to take years to sort out.