The Pitters' Place

Warner Brothers is releasing what's essentially a prequel to Peter Pan called "Pan". There's some backlash to it due to Rooney Mara being cast as Tiger Lily, who has been traditionally interpreted as a Native American.

There have been accusations of white washing which I think is justified. However, I do have to wonder how much of this move was to try and avoid backlash and accusations of stereotyping (albeit perhpaps misguided) by Native Americans out of tribal garb and . In addition, it looks like the tribe is diverse, so this could be a very different interpretation of not just the character but the tribe itself.

What are your thoughts?

I think it's some utter whitewashing bullshit. WB replied to controversy with:

There's a misconception about the ethnicity of the original character and we felt no obligation to perpetuate that misconception. We looked at Native American actresses. We looked at African-American actresses. We looked at African actresses. We looked at Middle Eastern actresses. White actresses. After a very exhaustive casting process, we ultimately went with the best actress for the part.

From what I can get from that, they're trying to imply that Tiger Lily is not originally a Native American character which... are you fucking kidding me.

And Joe Wright, the director has said:

"In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth."

Are you fucking kidding me. You don't know what a native tribe referred to as 'redskins' could possibly indicate? YOU ARE A GROWN ASS MAN.

To be honest, I think the suggestion that they have basically flung together a mishmash of tribal cultures and are now saying that they represent a generic Neverland tribe is a problem in itself. The implication is that all 'exotic' and foreign tribal cultures are essentially analogous and you can throw them all together under a heading of 'tribal'. Not only is Native American culture not Middle Eastern culture not African culture but there are no monolithic Native American or Middle Eastern or African cultures anyway. But they're saying, hey, Yoruba, Zulu, Pueblo, Cree, whatever, they're all basically not white, right? Which makes them kinda of the same? And we can just take bits and divorce them of meaning and throw them into a mixing bowl and say we've made a whole new culture?

There is almost no representation for Native American actresses in Hollywood. They had a chance here with a historically Native American character, who they have made white, for no discernable reason, while also pilfering the trappings of various tribal cultures around the world. It's gross. Although I guess this Tiger Lily can go hang out with white Tonto.

They should have tried harder to cast someone who was native american. As Aels said, they shouldn't just be casting white people in ethnic minority roles. And yeah, it's wrong when they just go 'Oh, you're ethnic, you can play this character who is a totally different culture to you because you're darker skinned'. I noticed that in The Mummy films, they have a latina and a white person playing Eygptian princesses, that only hit me last time I watched one. I've still not watched Exodus either, when they cast Bale and Edgerton as Moses and Rameses, it's ridiculous.

I think the only time that's been okay is when they cast John Cho, who is Korean-American, to play Sulu, when the original actor George Takei is Japanese American. Takei pointed out to the director that Roddenberry, at the time he created the character wanted him to represent all Asia, and as Takei originated the role I'd go with what he said.

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:What are your thoughts?

What aels said, only not as goodly.

In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth.

Woah woah woah. There's something in here that seems so much worse than what Aels said about it. His idea was that that the character should be considered to be "from everywhere", and that they should be just "natives of Planet Earth"... and the way to represent such a person is to make them white??

I think that's what she meant to address when she said all the "tribes" of the world are "not white" and therefore the same.

Yeah, the whole white people being the representatives for the planet comment is what got me the most.

That movie can go fuck itself.

Gendo wrote:

In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth.

Woah woah woah. There's something in here that seems so much worse than what Aels said about it. His idea was that that the character should be considered to be "from everywhere", and that they should be just "natives of Planet Earth"... and the way to represent such a person is to make them white??

Tiger Lily's dad is black, not that that makes it any better.

aels wrote:And Joe Wright, the director has said:

"In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth."

Are you fucking kidding me. You don't know what a native tribe referred to as 'redskins' could possibly indicate?

[edit]Nevermind. After rereading the quote, it does seem he doesn't recognize the teem in terms of not knowimg. Maybe what he said was clumsily worded and he did mean what I said below. However, it certainly doesn't sound like it.



To be fair, I think he meant "recognize" in terms saying he won't accept it as a term referring to Native Americans because of it being a racial slur, not that he didn't know what it was.


Of course, by doing so you're also ignoring what was and likely still is one of the few sources of what is clearly Native American representation.

"In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth."

It takes a special kind of insane to think that a white person is a better representation of a "native of Planet Earth" than anything else. They can say it's arbitrary and that the best actor was chosen all they want, but god damn.

All i know is this controversy is making me want to see it more.

I was thinking of using my rewards points to see Fantastic 4 as a free movie, but maybe I'll use them for this instead.

I don't know who Tiger Lily or Rooney Mara are.

BruceSmith78 wrote:I don't know who Tiger Lily or Rooney Mara are.

Let me point you in the direction of Tiger Lily, by posting this quite racist depiction:



Rooney Mara:

sikax wrote:

"In the book, the natives are described as being redskins, which is a term I don't really recognize. So I couldn't work out where they were natives of. So I thought, should they be Native American, or should they be African, or should they be Mongolian? And then I thought, well, better if they are from everywhere, that they are all natives of Planet Earth."

It takes a special kind of insane to think that a white person is a better representation of a "native of Planet Earth" than anything else. They can say it's arbitrary and that the best actor was chosen all they want, but god damn.

After further reflection, I think I get the point which I didn't quite get. That is that so what if the tribe represents planet earth? You can have a Native American in a traditionally Native American role and still have a diverse tribe representing planet Earth

Racist Hollywood is racist.

Dr_Liszt wrote:Racist Hollywood is racist.

Maybe. I still plan on watching it though.

Kate and Rooney Mara are American royalty. They can do what they want and lesser people just have to suck it up and deal with it. Okay, I hear Kate Mara sucked as the Invisible Woman, but it's her right to suck. Other people are just jealous that they aren't set to inherit part ownership of two NFL franchises.