The Pitters' Place

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/02/us/admitt ... index.html

Not a bad article, considering that it's CNN.

Excerpt:

WWE recently fired former wrestler Hulk Hogan after he was caught on tape using the N-word and complaining about the prospect of his daughter being intimate with a black man.

The Food Network fired celebrity chef Paula Deen in 2013 after court documents revealed she used the N-word and made anti-Semitic jokes.

Both Hogan and Deen apologized. During a tearful interview on NBC's "Today" show, Deen said she was not a racist. And Hogan apologized, saying the racial epithets he used were "inconsistent with my own beliefs" and "is not who I am."

At times, such claims of racial innocence anger people as much as the offensive words themselves, some African-Americans say.

"The constant denials are insulting," says Saptosa Foster, a black woman who is managing partner at the 135th Street Agency, a public relations firm that represents Hollywood clients.

"I'm disappointed when I hear someone say that [they're not racist] when they are caught on tape or a recording blatantly spewing racist beliefs," Foster says. "Either they don't realize they're racist and don't understand what racism means, or they're unwilling to confront the issue head-on."

Yeah, it's pretty fucking stupid, but I understand celebrities attempting to save face. Most of them aren't bright enough to understand scope or depth, so of course they're going to give the generic tele-prompted bullshit apology. Pretty easily ignored and forgotten.

Why do we pretend like we expect Paula Deen or Hulk Hogan to be upstanding citizens or educated people? We don't hold the same scrutiny for the millions of everyday racists who live and work in the real world. I mean, shit, fuck 'em.

I'm a racist. I don't mean to be. Mine is borne out of ignorance, not hatred.

I think this is just another issue of people having no understanding of what racism is, or what a racist is.

They see KKK members on TV and think that a racist is someone who goes around trying to kill black people and shouting that blacks are inferior to whites. They think that a racist is someone who hates all blacks people and actively wants them to be segregated from whites.

They don't realize that a racist IS someone who uses racial slurs. A racist is someone who has subconscious thoughts causing them to be afraid of a black teen in a hoodie. A racist is someone who feels better about hiring someone with a white-sounding name without even realizing it.

It's been a while, but I remember that Michael Richards responded on pretty much the same way as Hogan and Dean.

My understanding is that the word "racist" has a lot of force; as the article said, it's somewhat comparable to the force accusing someone of being a "communist" had during the Cold War. I'm not getting this impression from celebrities, whom I couldn't care less about; I'm getting it from family members and friends-of-friends, who have a habit of complaining loudly and angrily about how much power the word has and how "just accusing someone of being a racist can destroy their life" or something like that. And to be honest that's the impression I had for a long time; growing up it always seemed that calling someone a racist was the worst and most serious charge you could bring on someone. So the hyper-defensive reaction (white) people always have to being called racist, I guess, partly stems from this perception.

I don't know how to feel about persuading white people to admit to their racism. It's as some people in the quoted article said. If it becomes more acceptable for people to admit their racism, that would probably do a lot to increase honesty and self-awareness, but it would also dilute the word "racist" of a lot of its power. As that woman said, if it all of a sudden became acceptable for white people to admit to their racism, what then? Jesus. That would be awful. Everyone would be racist! It would be no big deal! Racism would be treated like just another weakness of will or mild character defect, like laziness or alcoholism. That's not a good idea. The word "racist" needs to keep its weaponized form it has. It needs to keep being one of the most powerful and damaging words in our lexicon, because it denotes (and connotes) something powerful and damaging. We need to keep being reminded of how damaging and corrosive racism actually is, so let's keep the strength of the word.

But I'm not sure how good that is either, because the power of the word serves to narrow it in the minds of white people too. Because it's so bad it can only refer to blatant things like KKK members and skinheads, not "invisible" or "subtle" things like systemic discrimination and cultural appropriation and microaggressions and whatnot. So what needs to happen is for the word "racist" to keep its force, but make people realize that such an awful thing refers to quite a lot of other more insidious things besides KKK members and lynchings. I don't think that will ever happen. It'll always either be one or the other, because people are stupid and can't grasp complicated things.

So it seems to be a bit of a paradox to me. I don't know, I'm tired and confused and I'll probably regret this post.

Once I mentioned I was racist on some board (because probably everyone is, tbh) and people jumped on me. If that Harvard Implicit Association Test is anything to go by (I trust it quite a lot), I apparently mildly prefer Asians to white people, and moderately prefer white people to black people. So yeah, I'm definitely racist. It also says I 'strongly' prefer straight people to gay people, which isn't news to me either because I have a soul-crushing amount of internalised homophobia and am fully aware of that. It's one of the reasons why I'm so invested in LGBT rights - because if I'm gay and hate gay people, society obviously has a problem with homophobia.

There's the argument that what you believe is one thing, but what you do about it is more important. So it might be better to focus less on criticizing people for what they were taught to believe and more on the concrete things they can do to confront and change and compensate for those beliefs, ensuring that the next generation gets a better upbringing.

Derived Absurdity wrote:My understanding is that the word "racist" has a lot of force; as the article said, it's somewhat comparable to the force accusing someone of being a "communist" had during the Cold War. I'm not getting this impression from celebrities, whom I couldn't care less about; I'm getting it from family members and friends-of-friends, who have a habit of complaining loudly and angrily about how much power the word has and how "just accusing someone of being a racist can destroy their life" or something like that. And to be honest that's the impression I had for a long time; growing up it always seemed that calling someone a racist was the worst and most serious charge you could bring on someone. So the hyper-defensive reaction (white) people always have to being called racist, I guess, partly stems from this perception.

I don't know how to feel about persuading white people to admit to their racism. It's as some people in the quoted article said. If it becomes more acceptable for people to admit their racism, that would probably do a lot to increase honesty and self-awareness, but it would also dilute the word "racist" of a lot of its power. As that woman said, if it all of a sudden became acceptable for white people to admit to their racism, what then? Jesus. That would be awful. Everyone would be racist! It would be no big deal! Racism would be treated like just another weakness of will or mild character defect, like laziness or alcoholism. That's not a good idea. The word "racist" needs to keep its weaponized form it has. It needs to keep being one of the most powerful and damaging words in our lexicon, because it denotes (and connotes) something powerful and damaging. We need to keep being reminded of how damaging and corrosive racism actually is, so let's keep the strength of the word.

But I'm not sure how good that is either, because the power of the word serves to narrow it in the minds of white people too. Because it's so bad it can only refer to blatant things like KKK members and skinheads, not "invisible" or "subtle" things like systemic discrimination and cultural appropriation and microaggressions and whatnot. So what needs to happen is for the word "racist" to keep its force, but make people realize that such an awful thing refers to quite a lot of other more insidious things besides KKK members and lynchings. I don't think that will ever happen. It'll always either be one or the other, because people are stupid and can't grasp complicated things.

So it seems to be a bit of a paradox to me. I don't know, I'm tired and confused and I'll probably regret this post.

I can totally relate to that. Over here racism is so normal accusing someone of racism doesn't have any impact. There was a post on facebook complaining about minorities trying to change that when it has always been this way.

Latin Ameeericaaa!!

Once I mentioned I was racist on some board (because probably everyone is, tbh) and people jumped on me. If that Harvard Implicit Association Test is anything to go by (I trust it quite a lot), I apparently mildly prefer Asians to white people, and moderately prefer white people to black people. So yeah, I'm definitely racist. It also says I 'strongly' prefer straight people to gay people, which isn't news to me either because I have a soul-crushing amount of internalised homophobia and am fully aware of that. It's one of the reasons why I'm so invested in LGBT rights - because if I'm gay and hate gay people, society obviously has a problem with homophobia.

I called myself racist at one of the debates with the Opus Dei people, they told me that I shouldn't call myself that because it's dehumanizing and I'm being racist against my own race. Which doesn't make sense at all.

Yeah, but denying racism and saying racist shit doesn't help change things, which is what's being criticized here.


Liszt posted so now it's not clear what I'm replying to, but that reply is for Anakin's last paragraph.

That's why you quote people.

Yeah, but denying racism and saying racist shit doesn't help change things, which is what's being criticized here.

yep

Liszt is super duper racist though

Gendo wrote:I think this is just another issue of people having no understanding of what racism is, or what a racist is.

They see KKK members on TV and think that a racist is someone who goes around trying to kill black people and shouting that blacks are inferior to whites. They think that a racist is someone who hates all blacks people and actively wants them to be segregated from whites.

They don't realize that a racist IS someone who uses racial slurs. A racist is someone who has subconscious thoughts causing them to be afraid of a black teen in a hoodie. A racist is someone who feels better about hiring someone with a white-sounding name without even realizing it.

It's been a while, but I remember that Michael Richards responded on pretty much the same way as Hogan and Dean.

This is similar to what I was going to post. I was also going to post that I think a lot of people run on the logic of 'Being a racist is commonly held to be bad ---> I am a good person ---> therefore I am not a racist'. These are the people who act like being accused of racism is much worse than actually saying racist things.

I can totally relate to that. Over here racism is so normal accusing someone of racism doesn't have any impact. There was a post on facebook complaining about minorities trying to change that when it has always been this way.

Latin Ameeericaaa!!

Perhaps a better approach would be to say that a person's statement or action itself was racist, but not just calling oneself a racist? I mean, I sometimes tell my friends that they're acting like dicks, even though I don't think of them as being dicks. Could something like this also be applied to racist actions?

Monk wrote:

I can totally relate to that. Over here racism is so normal accusing someone of racism doesn't have any impact. There was a post on facebook complaining about minorities trying to change that when it has always been this way.

Latin Ameeericaaa!!

Perhaps a better approach would be to say that a person's statement or action itself was racist, but not just calling oneself a racist? I mean, I sometimes tell my friends that they're acting like dicks, even though I don't think of them as being dicks. Could something like this also be applied to racist actions?

I don't think so.... isn't this more or less what these people have been saying? That what they did is inconsistent with who they are?

Gendo wrote:A racist is someone who has subconscious thoughts causing them to be afraid of a black teen in a hoodie.

I will admit I have noticed myself doing this and have recognized the inherent racism in this reaction. Doesn't mean I've stopped, but at least I feel bad when I do it.

I've also had a bad habit of noticing black people walking in the street. Though I have started noticing white people in the street, though they're running. Really can't stand either, but the former irks me more and I'm sure that has to do with my racist tendencies. I've actually been trying to make a joke out of thsee differences, but I keep hitting a wall which is the same problem as most rape jokes in that my lines all sound like they're making fun of the victim.

I also have a friend whose mom uses racial slurs in a manner not meant to denigrate or deride. She doesn't realize what she says is racist because she thinks the way she uses them is innocent enough.

I think the problem is people think racism is borne out of feelings of superority over others Most probably don't feel superior or don't thint they do. But from what I've observed, especially from myself as well as others, is that it's ignorance, not superiority. I've been ignorant on these issues for a long time and I've done and said racist shit. It was never out of belief of superiority. I just didn't know. Mine is more dangerous because it is so much more subtle than what we stereotype racism as. It's the one that pervades our culture and prevents us from looking introspectively, causing us to never realize just what this type of racism is doing. It's this kind that dismisses many of the issues marginalized races face because "Hey, at least I don't support the KKK". I am a good person, but I recognize even good people can do and say racist bull shit. And yes, that does make them (and me) racist. But in order to change that, they have to admit it and want to change (and I do).

"Hey, but I have black friends!"

There are all kinds of racism. Some racists are insensitive to racial, uh, what's the word...racial...thingies...and so when they say some stupid racist shit and get called out they're like, "What's the big deal? I know I'm not a racist, so when I say racist-sounding things you should know they don't mean anything. YOU are the one who's over-sensitive and politically correct." This is scary because they will never accept responsibility or that they're doing anything wrong because it's OUR over-sensitivity that's the problem. Like aels said, they're more concerned that they're being accused of racism than being racist. It's astonishing, really.

And that's another thing, "politically correct". This fucking term is thrown around so fucking much. I mean, not being racist or sexist or otherwise omni-bigoted is now considered simply being "politically correct"? Jesus Christ. The repulsion of being "politically correct" has led some people to forcibly abandon all shreds of compassion and kindness. It's like holding a door open for an elderly person makes you a sheep. Not referring to a black guy as "colored" means you've been brainwashed by the liberal majority. Good holy God.

Sorry, /rant.

sikax wrote:"Hey, but I have black friends!"

There are all kinds of racism. Some racists are insensitive to racial, uh, what's the word...racial...thingies...and so when they say some stupid racist shit and get called out they're like, "What's the big deal? I know I'm not a racist, so when I say racist-sounding things you should know they don't mean anything. YOU are the one who's over-sensitive and politically correct." This is scary because they will never accept responsibility or that they're doing anything wrong because it's OUR over-sensitivity that's the problem. Like aels said, they're more concerned that they're being accused of racism than being racist. It's astonishing, really.

And that's another thing, "politically correct". This fucking term is thrown around so fucking much. I mean, not being racist or sexist or otherwise omni-bigoted is now considered simply being "politically correct"? Jesus Christ. The repulsion of being "politically correct" has led some people to forcibly abandon all shreds of compassion and kindness. It's like holding a door open for an elderly person makes you a sheep. Not referring to a black guy as "colored" means you've been brainwashed by the liberal majority. Good holy God.

Sorry, /rant.

You're just being overly sensitive & politically correct.

B-aaa-a-aa

Gendo wrote:

Monk wrote:

I can totally relate to that. Over here racism is so normal accusing someone of racism doesn't have any impact. There was a post on facebook complaining about minorities trying to change that when it has always been this way.

Latin Ameeericaaa!!

Perhaps a better approach would be to say that a person's statement or action itself was racist, but not just calling oneself a racist? I mean, I sometimes tell my friends that they're acting like dicks, even though I don't think of them as being dicks. Could something like this also be applied to racist actions?

I don't think so.... isn't this more or less what these people have been saying? That what they did is inconsistent with who they are?

Eh, sort of. Very often people won't even admit that it was a racist thing to say. But i see your point.

sikax wrote:B-aaa-a-aa

Humbug

Nothing signals "I'm a bigoted asshole" as effectively as whining about political correctness.

Derived Absurdity wrote:Nothing signals "I'm a bigoted asshole" as effectively as whining about political correctness.

That and calling people 'SJWs'. It's like wearing a big badge saying 'Hello, I am a nonsense person'.

I take it as a compliment. I always wanted to be a Sexy Jewish Woman.

Derived Absurdity wrote:I take it as a compliment. I always wanted to be a Sexy Jewish Woman.

What about Social Jesuit Worker? Or Smart Jordanian Woodcutter?

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:

Derived Absurdity wrote:I take it as a compliment. I always wanted to be a Sexy Jewish Woman.

What about Social Jesuit Worker? Or Smart Jordanian Woodcutter?

Everyone knows Jordanian woodcutters are notoriously stupid.

sikax wrote:

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:

Derived Absurdity wrote:I take it as a compliment. I always wanted to be a Sexy Jewish Woman.

What about Social Jesuit Worker? Or Smart Jordanian Woodcutter?

Everyone knows Jordanian woodcutters are notoriously stupid.

Racist.

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:Racist.

^ PC

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:

Derived Absurdity wrote: What about Social Jesuit Worker?

Every time I see "SJW" I think of Society of Jesuits.. probably because I went to a Jesuit high school. Though the W doesn't fit in there anywhere.

Gendo wrote:

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:

Derived Absurdity wrote: What about Social Jesuit Worker?

Every time I see "SJW" I think of Society of Jesuits.. probably because I went to a Jesuit high school. Though the W doesn't fit in there anywhere.

Maybe a school mascot? Society of Jesuit Wombats

That and calling people 'SJWs'. It's like wearing a big badge saying 'Hello, I am a nonsense person'.

I used to call people SJWs - defined as people who use social justice as an excuse to be a horrible person, e.g. telling someone they deserve to be raped for saying racist things, and also TERFs - but it's since become synonymous with anybody who cares about social justice things, and now I no longer have a term for those other people.

Over here any mention of social justice gets equalized with cultural marxism. It's scary. I've heard people say "I support gays but not gay marriage and LGBT movement, because that's marxism."

I wish they would just kill themselves.

^SJW.