Chris Rock's opening monologue at the Oscars?

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

What did you think?

I myself thought it was quite funny and the skewering of both Hollywood and "misplaced" outrage was done pretty fairly. I know he's getting slammed for his line about black people had real issues in the 1950s and 1960s. But I honestly think that was his intention. We had all these controversies swirling within the black community that affected them more than who hadn't been nominated, and all the attention was shifted to the Oscars. But after his joke, a lot of tweets responded, listing a few real issues black people face:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/28/ch ... scars-joke

And I can't help but think "Good job, you're bringing up the real issues, which is what Chris Rock wanted. To shift attention back to things the really make the black community suffer".

I'm not saying diversity in Hollywood isn't an issue. God help ya if you try find an Asian leading man that's not in some dumb comedy martial arts/Asia-set drama. But you know, priorities.

[Cassius Clay]

Speaking about racism in terms of "real issues" is always a terrible idea.

His monologue was all over the place. He had some really funny moments and some really weird ones. That's because he was attempting a balancing act of not making white people too uncomfortable while addressing the issue and dropping some bombs. Some say he intentionally put the audience at ease then started slapping the shit out of them.

I personally didn't like the imagery of your "grandmother swinging from a tree". And the language framing of black to busy being "lynched and raped". But that's a subtlety most don't care about or pickup on.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

Speaking about racism in terms of "real issues" is always a terrible idea.

His monologue was all over the place. He had some really funny moments and some really weird ones. That's because he was attempting a balancing act of not making white people too uncomfortable while addressing the issue and dropping some bombs. Some say he intentionally put the audience at ease then started slapping the shit out of them.

I personally didn't like the imagery of your "grandmother swinging from a tree". And the language framing of black to busy being "lynched and raped". But that's a subtlety most don't care about or pickup on.

My question to you then would be would you put the Oscar's lack of diversity in its nominees on the same level as other issues that are plaguing the black community?

[Cassius Clay]

No. But pitting "real issues" against Hollywood diversity/representation trivializes the issues. Representation is not a trivial issue. Ask yourself who that question serves? It's completely unnecessary and is only meant to serve power and make those in power feel comfortable. It certainly isn't meant to help black people. As if black people don't know what our issues are and need to be reminded.

http://m.nydailynews.com/entertainment/ ... ailyNewsTw

[Cassius Clay]

I wanna make it clear that my "no" is a personal one, not an objective one. Because the idea that black people collectively SHOULD care less about a certain issue is highly problematic. Especially coming from outsiders. The enthusiastic applause from the majority white audience after Rock made that statement was annoying. We will not be scolded about what issues we should care about by people primarily motivated by a need to feel comfortable/mitigate guilt.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

Well, what about a person also of a severely underrepresented minority?

My thought is you at least have actors getting leads and making award winning movies, or at least ones considered contenders. Asians have...so many stereotypes still being propagated by the media or at best relegation to supporting roles.

Maybe it's because better representation would create a better understanding within & for the black community. I'll admit Asians don't go through the same trials as blacks, but you never hear from us even though there is clearly an issue with diversity in general, and not just for blacks. It's an odd dynamic to be sure when minorities in general are clearly underrepresented but only one is vocal about it. I think that's where I'm coming from. That because we don't go through those issues, we don't necessarily feel united in trying to get better representation. I don't hear anyone demand better roles for us, and if we suffered the way blacks do/did, maybe I'd have a different perspective.

[Cassius Clay]

One more thing...

The fact that if I was to get shot by an officer today, I would clearly care more about that (in that moment) than I would about hollywood diversity, does not follow that hollywood diversity is ultimately unimportant in the larger fight for equality. You can trivialize any important issue by pitting it against something larger. Hey, you could say "none of this shit is important anyway because humans have only existed for an incredibly small fraction of time compared to the age of the universe, and we might not even be here much longer." But only tools use such pretentious comparisons to trivialize important issues that don't affect them....especially when they actually do care about the issue but are on the other side of it (privilege)...it's self-serving, disguised as good advice. Which is the definition of concern-trolling.

And the funny thing is that the Oscars diversity issue grew as large as it did because white people made it a big deal...with the angry pushback, instigation, and the trivializing. So, if it's so trivial, why the angry pushback? Why is the white audience applauding the notion that it's trivial, yet simultaneously treat it like it's the biggest night of their life? If representation is so unimportant, why is everything white?

[Cassius Clay]

Well, what about a person also of a severely underrepresented minority?

My thought is you at least have actors getting leads and making award winning movies, or at least ones considered contenders. Asians have...so many stereotypes still being propagated by the media or at best relegation to supporting roles.

Maybe it's because better representation would create a better understanding within & for the black community. I'll admit Asians don't go through the same trials as blacks, but you never hear from us even though there is clearly an issue with diversity in general, and not just for blacks. It's an odd dynamic to be sure when minorities in general are clearly underrepresented but only one is vocal about it. I think that's where I'm coming from. That because we don't go through those issues, we don't necessarily feel united in trying to get better representation. I don't hear anyone demand better roles for us, and if we suffered the way blacks do/did, maybe I'd have a different perspective.

I've seen plenty of Asian Americans and other non-black POCs organize and voice their issues with representation. But there's lots of things at play as to why you don't hear about Asians as much as you hear about black people. The OscarsSoWhite movement was inclusive...it was not just for black people but POCs in general. Look up black hypervisibilty. Black people suffer from hypervisibility, which is a form of anti-blackness other POCs often mistake for positive attention or power...and then play oppression olympics. Hypervisibility is not the same thing as having a voice..because it's negative attention. It's like having all this negative attention on you while not being heard. An example is how black people primarily suffer a majority of the "pushback" when we make noise about issues like diversity. At the same time, many non-black POCs are content with their position within the system...because "racism is built on anti-blackness and other races are judged by their proximity to blackness". So, many non-black minorities don't resist the "model minority" stereotype because it's at least better than being black, and so make less noise and try to not "rock the boat".

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

Well, what about a person also of a severely underrepresented minority?

My thought is you at least have actors getting leads and making award winning movies, or at least ones considered contenders. Asians have...so many stereotypes still being propagated by the media or at best relegation to supporting roles.

Maybe it's because better representation would create a better understanding within & for the black community. I'll admit Asians don't go through the same trials as blacks, but you never hear from us even though there is clearly an issue with diversity in general, and not just for blacks. It's an odd dynamic to be sure when minorities in general are clearly underrepresented but only one is vocal about it. I think that's where I'm coming from. That because we don't go through those issues, we don't necessarily feel united in trying to get better representation. I don't hear anyone demand better roles for us, and if we suffered the way blacks do/did, maybe I'd have a different perspective.

I've seen plenty of Asian Americans and other non-black POCs organize and voice their issues with representation. But there's lots of things at play as to why you don't hear about Asians as much as you hear about black people. The OscarsSoWhite movement was inclusive...it was not just for black people but POCs in general. Look up black hypervisibilty. Black people suffer from hypervisibility, which is a form of anti-blackness other POCs often mistake for positive attention or power...and then play oppression olympics. Hypervisibility is not the same thing as having a voice..because it's negative attention. It's like having all this negative attention on you while not being heard. An example is how black people primarily suffer a majority of the "pushback" when we make noise about issues like diversity. At the same time, many non-black POCs are content with their position within the system...because "racism is built on anti-blackness and other races are judged by their proximity to blackness". So, many non-black minorities don't resist the "model minority" stereotype because it's at least better than being black, and so make less noise and try to not "rock the boat".

Well wait a minute. If blacks suffer from hypervisibility but there are plenty of non-black minoritues getting involved, surely there's a way to balance that out.

[Cassius Clay]

What?

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

What?

I don't understand the question. If other minorities are speaking out but not being heard due to hypervisibility, what's the solution to balance those out? I.e. what can be done so that the other POC's are heard along with the black community?

[Cassius Clay]

You're framing is wrong. Hypervisibility does not harm them, it harms black people. It is not a hurdle in the way of Asian voices. I didn't say hypervisibility was the reason, I was implying that you're mistaking black hypervisibility for black voice by acting as if it's good attention and saying "what about the Asians?"

I also said that part of the issue is that many Asians don't like to rock the boat...and need to be more willing to yell loudly alongside black people. Rather than sitting back and treating black hypervisibility as if it's an obstacle for Asians...then say "what about us?"...instead of understanding it as something that specifically harms black people.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

You're framing is wrong. Hypervisibility does not harm them, it harms black people. It is not a hurdle in the way of Asian voices. I didn't say hypervisibility was the reason, I was implying that you're mistaking black hypervisibility for black voice by acting as if it's good attention and saying "what about the Asians?"

I also said that part of the issue is that many Asians don't like to rock the boat...and need to be more willing to yell loudly alongside black people. Rather than sitting back and treating black hypervisibility as if it's an obstacle for Asians...then say "what about us?"...instead of understanding it as something that specifically harms black people.

I guess because I don't understand how it is only an issue for blacks. Yes, you are most affected by it, but by that same issue, the attention is being taken away from other minorities & turning negative towards you. You say Asians don't like to rock the boat but you also said that there were plenty of Asian Americans voicing their issues. So I don't know how one can assume that Asians don't speak out enough when perhaps attention is being drawn somewhere else and turning negative.

Just to let you know, I have no answer for your other questions and recognize my unintentional racism.

[Cassius Clay]

You're thinking in extremes. Anti-blackness affects all races, but obviously affects black people primarily. Black hypervisibility specifically harms black people, but "helps" non-black minorities by taking negative attention away from them and treating them as well-behaved "model minorities"....as opposed to the "loud, annoying, race-baiting blacks who are always crying about race and causing problems for everyone". But, the model-minority stereotype is double-edged sword. It gives non-black POCs privilege over blacks at the cost of being treated as the impotent sidekicks of white supremacy. Non-black POCs are encouraged by white supremacy to keep their mouths shut and take the racism against them, and rewarded with a certain amount of privilege over black people(a distance of blackness). So, Asians have stereotypically not made a lot of noise about racism due to a certain level of contentment within the system, and because they fear the pushback wouldn't be worth it. This does not mean that there hasn't been ANY type of Asian organizing and speaking up about racism...including forming alliances with black people. But, even then, many Asians that do speak up about racism have historically done so at the expense of black people(again, not ALL...I'm referring to trends, not absolutes). I was witnessing this very phenomenon on twitter last night.

If you're going to complain about black hypervisibility taking away attention from Asian lack of representation, you have to complain in the right way, to the right people...recognizing that it's not black people's fault. So don't complain to black people about it, as if it's black people's fault. And don't say "what about us?"..to black people speaking up about their issues. Speak to white supremacy...it's white supremacy's fault. And speak to members of the Asian-American community that are far too willing to enjoy the perks of the model minority stereotype and stay quiet...and then only speak up when black people are speaking up about ourselves, or are getting unwanted attention...like we asked for it.

If I haven't been clear, I'm saying part of the very reason black people specifically suffer so much hypervisibility and backlash(as opposed to other minorities) is because other minorities have historically been a lot more content in their position, because at least they're not black. So, the question you're asking is deeply flawed. So, what many Asians have done(again, not ALL) is basically sit back and play their position quietly, let black people take all the heat from speaking up for themselves, and then say "what about us?"...and even complain that unfairly get all the "attention" when it comes to race.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

You're thinking in extremes. Anti-blackness affects all races, but obviously affects black people primarily. Black hypervisibility specifically harms black people, but "helps" non-black minorities by taking negative attention away from them and treating them as well-behaved "model minorities"....as opposed to the "loud, annoying, race-baiting blacks who are always crying about race and causing problems for everyone". But, the model-minority stereotype is double-edged sword. It gives non-black POCs privilege over blacks at the cost of being treated as the impotent sidekicks of white supremacy. Non-black POCs are encouraged by white supremacy to keep their mouths shut and take the racism against them, and rewarded with a certain amount of privilege over black people(a distance of blackness). So, Asians have stereotypically not made a lot of noise about racism due to a certain level of contentment within the system, and because they fear the pushback wouldn't be worth it. This does not mean that there hasn't been ANY type of Asian organizing and speaking up about racism...including forming alliances with black people. But, even then, many Asians that do speak up about racism have historically done so at the expense of black people(again, not ALL...I'm referring to trends, not absolutes). I was witnessing this very phenomenon on twitter last night.

If you're going to complain about black hypervisibility taking away attention from Asian lack of representation, you have to complain in the right way, to the right people...recognizing that it's not black people's fault. So don't complain to black people about it, as if it's black people's fault. And don't say "what about us?"..to black people speaking up about their issues. Speak to white supremacy...it's white supremacy's fault. And speak to members of the Asian-American community that are far too willing to enjoy the perks of the model minority stereotype and stay quiet...and then only speak up when black people are speaking up about ourselves, or are getting unwanted attention...like we asked for it.

If I haven't been clear, I'm saying part of the very reason black people specifically suffer so much hypervisibility and backlash(as opposed to other minorities) is because other minorities have historically been a lot more content in their position, because at least they're not black. So, the question you're asking is deeply flawed. So, what many Asians have done(again, not ALL) is basically sit back and play their position quietly, let black people take all the heat from speaking up for themselves, and then say "what about us?"...and even complain that unfairly get all the "attention" when it comes to race.

Thank you for the perspective and pointing out (in several posts) that I'm essentially doing what MRA's are doing to women's rights but in terms of race here.

Can I ask what you think of Zootopia and the buzz it's been getting? If you're not aware, it's Disney's newest animated feature coming out and a lot of critics are talking about how socially relevant it is with regards to things like stereotyping and often falling back on them without meaning to (there's a scene in the trailer where a mother pulls her kid from another animal because of the type of creature it is). The two main characters are voiced by white actors. I'm wondering if you think it was a missed opportunity to cast minorities who are affected much more by these issues. Or do you think that in the case of voice acting, the creators wanted the voices that best matched the vision of these characters (Jason Bateman as a sly conman fox, Ginnifer Goodwin as a naive but plucky police rabbit)? They after all have Idris Elba as an intimidating, chief of police ox. Do you think because Zootopia is working as a metaphor & has no humans, that the voice actor's talent/match to character is at play? If you want a comparison drawn, look to The Princess and the Frog in which humans do exist. Tiana is black and so is her voice actress. I guess what I'm asking is that because of Zootopia's themes that reflect today's issues affecting minorities, was hiring white actors akin to hiring a white actor the voice a black character? Or because these are issues that influence or apply to everyone in some way (whether it be experiencing stereotyping or engaging in them for example) and that these are animals not humans, then it didn't really matter who was hired as long as the voices matched the vision of the creators?

[Cassius Clay]

I haven't really heard about this. I did hear one critic say it was much heavier than he expected because it deals with real social issues like drug addiction. I'll have to look into it to give a more informed opinion.

I'd say hiring more minority actors is always a good thing. Though, the idea of making a point about race - by using different animals as a metaphor - initially makes me a little wary. I guess it depends on how it's handled.

[Unvoiced_Apollo]

I haven't really heard about this. I did hear one critic say it was much heavier than he expected because it deals with real social issues like drug addiction. I'll have to look into it to give a more informed opinion.

I'd say hiring more minority actors is always a good thing. Though, the idea of making a point about race - by using different animals as a metaphor - initially makes me a little wary. I guess it depends on how it's handled.

I don't think it was specifically making a point about race per se, but prejudices in general and that even the most well-meaning of folks can be insensitive regarding them. My thinking was that with such a theme, it could apply to race (especially when you see all the different animals in the movie with their own stereotypes & biases) and when you do, you realize how this theme reflects issues minorities face more often than whites. Which led me to the question of if you think minority actors would have better represented the theme. Or if, since this is a cartoon without real world human analogs of race, that it doesn't really matter who was cast so long as the actors can convey those themes with sincerity and match the vision the creators had for these voices. I know you might still need more information to give an answer. I will say I wouldn't have been opposed to minority voices as leads, but I also think the voices they chose really match their characters.

[Islandmur]

Speaking about racism in terms of "real issues" is always a terrible idea.

His monologue was all over the place. He had some really funny moments and some really weird ones. That's because he was attempting a balancing act of not making white people too uncomfortable while addressing the issue and dropping some bombs. Some say he intentionally put the audience at ease then started slapping the shit out of them.

I personally didn't like the imagery of your "grandmother swinging from a tree". And the language framing of black to busy being "lynched and raped". But that's a subtlety most don't care about or pickup on.

I think the comment about "we had other things to worry about then" was a response to people who have been saying "why now?"