Why do people think adultery is okay?

[Anakin McFly]

I've seen it twice in the past couple weeks- first someone decrying "primitive attitudes that say premarital sex and having affairs are wrong" and then a liberal news site here talking about a certain ragingly homophobic pastor's "conservative views on controversial subjects like religion, homosexuality and adultery".

What are these liberal views on adultery? How is it a 'controversial' subject? How does anyone even consider something that involves lying, betraying your partner's trust and creates real victims to be morally acceptable at all?

I googled and saw a few results about how adultery might be good for one's marriage because it lets people cope with their sexual frustrations in secret without divorcing

I hate people.

[Cassius Clay]

I think they are more anti-monogamy rather than necessarily pro-adultery.

[Derived Absurdity]

Seems pro-adultery to me. "Having an affair" has always meant to me "cheating".

As for the liberal news website, I'd have to know more. Perhaps the pastor said adulterers need to be stoned or something.

I remember a few years ago I was completely flabbergasted when I saw a late-night commercial literally selling ways on how to cheat on your spouse without getting caught. It's like... wtf?? It had the whole thing with the guy sneaking out of his bed and out of his house in the middle of the night and everything. How is that shit acceptable to show?? How is that... what?? When did we decide this was okay??

[Anakin McFly]

I'd like to think it's just about anti-monogamy, and it might be the case for some of them who are actually promoting open relationships rather than adultery. But then there are sites like Ashley Madison, whose business model revolves entirely around the assurance of secrecy, and whose CEO argued that it's okay to cheat on your spouse if they never find out because then no one will be hurt, and your marriage might be stronger for it because there's one less incentive (lack of sexual fulfillment) to divorce.

[Derived Absurdity]

Wait... that's what Ashley Madisons's about?

What the f...

I didn't know that.

[Anakin McFly]

From an interview with the CEO:

"A part of why I built this service is because people do affairs really poorly. ... everybody will figure it out. ... But don't mistake an affair with a discovered affair. 90 percent of affairs never get discovered. And you use it on Ashley Madison, the product is uniquely designed for being a secret. It's all about discretion and anonymity. … The most successful affair is being never discovered, and the kids will much rather have their both parents together even if one is unfaithful than have them break up."

https://e27.co/11-titillating-minutes-w ... -impressed

He's essentially arguing that the ends justify the means.

[aels]

My friend's marriage recently ended because her husband is a dirty, cheating son of a bitch and I hate him for it. I can't think of many shittier things to do to your partner. Open, agreed non-monogamy? Fine, that's not my thing but it's cool if it's your thing. But cheating is just low and I've never seen a justification for it that didn't boil down to 'I don't like feeling bad about myself so I'm going to convince myself that cheating is actually healthy for my relationship, although I'm never going to tell my spouse about this helpful - nay, noble - thing I'm doing for the sake of our happiness (not for my genitals, just for our happiness) because they're not going to agree quite so much'.

[Derived Absurdity]

I never even realized that there could possibly be or that some people attempt to think of justifications for cheating. That never even crossed my mind. Cheating is quite obviously 100% purely selfish and self-centered and everyone knows there is no possible excuse and rationale for it.

[Cassius Clay]

The main issues I have with cheating are practical...like potentially giving your partner an std you contracted...because they trusted you enough to be having unprotected sex with you...and are owed that exclusivity. You're a selfish asshole if you betray that.

I don't really hear those types of arguments when conservatives moralize about cheating. I don't believe their attitudes come from a healthy place. I don't really give a fuck about the "sanctity" of marriage in the sense they mean. And cheating is a personal thing between two individuals. Unless you're close friends to a person cheated on, I don't get the moralizing over infidelity in a relationship you have nothing to do with.

[Cassius Clay]

Also, I think conservatives are really more pro-monogamy than anti-adultery(there just happens to be overlap). So, I think challenging that can appear pro-adultery.

And what liberals are explicitly saying adultery is ok?

[Derived Absurdity]

Are conservative attitudes on anything healthy? From what I can tell all their positions stem from authoritarianism, racism, and sick psychosexual hang-ups.

And the whole point of cheating is that you're betraying someone's trust. You entered into a contract and you broke it. It shows that you're untrustworthy and selfish. I don't get "moralizing" but cheating shows everything you need to know about a person.

[Cassius Clay]

I don't prioritize cheating as a reliable measure of a person's general character/trustworthiness(especially looking in from the outside). It's too personal of a thing. Maybe because my father was an alleged cheater, yet is a deeply charitable man. Or because I have good friends that have cheated...or because my girlfriend has had an "emotional affair"(one she admitted to, and I forgave her for because I was a real dick at the time and she needed an outlet) but is a really good person...or because I've almost cheated. Who you choose to be sexually intimate with is a deeply personal thing that should be negotiated within relationships...it's too personal a thing to be morally policed by outsiders(made more complicated by the fact that monogamy may be a very unnatural state that people have been socialized to mold themselves to). A lot of cheaters are just pure assholes...but cheating is more complicated than that.

[Derived Absurdity]

Fair point. "Everything" is probably going overboard.

I'm certainly not defending monogamy; I think it's highly unnatural and horrible and causes untold suffering and misery. But I just have the opinion that if you enter a serious monogamous relationship, you enter into an unspoken and unwritten contact to be faithful to your partner, and if you break that, well... you know. I mean, it's certainly not the worst thing you can do, and I think people deserve second chances, and I'm certainly not the type of person to "morally police" other peoples' relationships or whatever. I agree that it's an entirely personal thing and should only be handled personally, not anyone else, 'cause it's not anyone else's business.

[Derived Absurdity]

I mean, I've been cheated on before, but the thing with that was, I didn't even mind because I knew at the time I wasn't keeping up my end of the deal... I wasn't really all that attentive to her 'cause I didn't particularly like her. So she cheated. It seems fair. I sort of broke my contract not not really doing my part to keep up the relationship, so she broke hers. I mean, it probably would have been best if she just broke up with me before that, but... it wasn't that big of a deal. There are probably millions of circumstances where cheating could be, if not "okay", then at least not that big a deal... and it can often be nuanced and personal enough that outsiders don't have any right to judge it.

[Cassius Clay]

Yeah...you're still an asshole if you cheat, but there is just this bizarre moral fervor in the way society talks about it.

[Anakin McFly]

And what liberals are explicitly saying adultery is ok?

The founder of Ashley Madison. Though I'm not sure if he's liberal or just a dick.

I don't prioritize cheating as a reliable measure of a person's general character/trustworthiness(especially looking in from the outside).

My family talked about that recently - regarding whether a known adulterer should have that fact affect his suitability as a politician. I said it should, because it was a measure of his honesty and integrity, and that those are qualities that politicians ideally should have; whereas my brother disagreed that cheating had anything to do with one's character, which I didn't understand. It's not as though those who don't cheat are always less tempted or have less reason to do so. Heck, I know a gay guy married to a straight woman who came out post-marriage and doesn't consider homosexuality wrong, but has still decided to stay faithful to her, because that's what he promised when they got married. (I also know a lesbian who's remained married to a straight guy, but I'm not completely sure of the details on that one.)

Someone who cheats can be a good - even very good - person in other ways, but I'd be less able to trust someone whom I know has betrayed the trust of one of the people they love most, whether it be in the case of adultery or any non-sexual matter. I'm with aels in that if a couple agrees to have an open relationship, that's their business. But mutually committing to an exclusively monogamous relationship is a big promise to only have sex / romance with each other, and cheating betrays that promise in a way that can often ruin lives, especially where children are involved.

[BruceSmith78]

I've never understood people that cheat and I've always thought it was one of the dumbest things a person can do. If you're not happy, say so and get out of the relationship. Why fuck around? I really don't get it. Most of my friends, back when I had friends, would cheat, and I just didn't get it. A lot of times I just don't get people.

I'm drunk. The Walking Dead was bullshit tonight.

[Anakin McFly]

If you're not happy, say so and get out of the relationship.

Sometimes they might only be unhappy about the sex but happy about the rest of it, or there might be kids involved and they don't want to break up the marriage. But if it's a casual relationship, or they've not been together that long, they should just break up.

[Monk]

If you're not happy, say so and get out of the relationship.

Sometimes they might only be unhappy about the sex but happy about the rest of it, or there might be kids involved and they don't want to break up the marriage. But if it's a casual relationship, or they've not been together that long, they should just break up.

I think this is largely the reason many people have affairs/cheat. I'm not defending it, but I don't think it's always so simple.

[BruceSmith78]

I think if you're not happy with the sex but everything else is great, you should be able to have a conversation about how you're not happy with the sex, and come to a resolution with your partner. If you can't do that, things aren't as great as you think they are. If you're only sticking around for the kids, you're probably not doing them or your partner any favors.

But I probably oversimplify it because sex isn't as important to me as it is to most people.

[Cassius Clay]

I always wanted to punch the host of that show 'Cheaters' in his smug face....even when I was a kid. The "holier than thou" social attitudes that make shows like that popular, and give that idiot the balls to stick his face into something that's none of his business, are really what I have an issue with. I don't mean to make excuses for cheating.

It's the same attitudes that Ashley Madison hackers had...and the public's endorsement. While the owner is a complete cunt, releasing names of people on the site was pure, self-righteous bullshit.

There's a decent show about cheating called 'The Affair' on Showtime.