Are people just stupid?

[Anakin McFly]

It's blindingly arrogant and makes me uncomfortable, but sometimes it's hard to see a better explanation for so much of what's happening in the world - particularly with politics and the kinds of things discussed on this board. I've had so many frustrating discussions with people who just don't *get* it, or who are unable to follow basic logic. I'm okay with people disagreeing with me as long as they can explain why, and perhaps change my mind if I was wrong. But so many can't, and then I realise that I overestimated them. And these are educated, mature adults, some of whom are in positions of authority and make decisions impacting hundreds or thousands of lives, including mine. It's scary, especially when their failure to understand something (or my failure to adequately argue it?) means I'll be restricted in my rights and freedom.

I'm loath to believe I'm somehow awesomer and more intelligent and educated than all of them, because I honestly don't think that's true. Many of those people are sometimes brilliant at maths or science or being human and other things I'm not that good at. So maybe it's just different people being good in different areas, but I find it hard to understand how some of that doesn't naturally spill over - like how does someone who's a gifted scientist not understand how it's sexist to judge a woman's worth solely by her appearance? I can understand initial biases and privilege making people oblivious to certain realities and prejudicing them against changing it, or even getting defensive and angry and bigoted. But instead some of those people appear genuinely baffled on an intellectual level, and that part just doesn't compute for me.

Or people who don't believe in global warming, or use blatantly circular logic, or think that the government chlorinates water in order to suppress our innate psychic powers, to give some of many examples that are completely divorced from oppression dynamics and thus can't be attributed to privilege. I'm actually primarily concerned about those - don't really awnt to get into another discussion on power dynamics, because we've had a lot of thoseo here of late - because they can't be explained as easily. Sure, there's peer pressure, religious beliefs, identity politics etc, but even then how do people completely not realise when they make no sense at all? There's a difference between understanding something but deciding to believe something else because of certain pressures.. but simply not understanding it? And how is it that the people on this board seem to be among the few humans unafflicted?

That leads to the unsettling idea that maybe I'm the one who's stupid and doesn't get it. It's what my brother suggested, pointing out that the vast majority of humanity is apparently smart enough to figure out how to function without constantly getting thrown off by these kinds of questions that keep disorienting and confusing me.

(on a tangent - what's the deal with people using 'un-American' as an insult? America seems to be the only country that has that. I mean, I never see someone decrying something as un-Swede, or un-New Zealander.)

EDIT: based on Google, I also realise that a lot of people who make posts asking why everyone is so stupid tend to come from a really privileged position and somehow turn it into a rant against feminism and how women don't make sense or something, which further heightens my self-doubt - because I think they're wrong, and that they're the ones being stupid, but they'd probably think the exact same of me. So, is this belief one that primarily emerges from arrogance and close-mindedness (since it requires you believing that you're right and everyone else is wrong), independent of any actual truth?

[CashRules]

Because if you're not American you don't really count. That's stretching it a bit, but at least be from a real country; which would be all the predominantly English-speaking countries (except Belize and the Bahamas), Germany, Japan, and Brazil. That last one only makes the list by virtue of being the largest country from the least important continent.

[Anakin McFly]

But they use that to refer to actual Americans. Like how supporting gun control is 'un-American', and apparently that's a bad thing.

[CashRules]

Supporting gun control is un-American. Anybody who supports gun control isn't only un-American, they're pretty damn ignorant. Supporting gun control should be a felony punishable by life in solitary confinement with no possibility of parole.

[Anakin McFly]

What do you know? You live in the barn.

[CashRules]

No, I send the lesbians to the barn.

[Anakin McFly]

How many lesbians?

[CashRules]

Two most of the time.

[Dr_Liszt]

Brazil? Why the fuck Brazil? Everything about Brazil is a scam. That's like saying India counts!

[CashRules]

Brazil is better than any Spanish speaking pretend country.

[Dr_Liszt]

Ummm... no. They eat shit flakes, Chile is still better and possibly Uruguay. All Brazil has is pretty building but the inequality is outstandingly horrifying. I do not call that progress.

If people from Mexico and Guatemala get scared seeing your poor people, you are doing something wrong.

[CashRules]

So you're saying they know how to keep the peasants in line?

[BruceSmith78]

The correct answer to the title of this thread is, "yes."

[Dr_Liszt]

So you're saying they know how to keep the peasants in line?

Well they just don't have as much poor people. Although the main reason is that Brazil economic inequality is horrifying. You can see it just by googling pictures of Brazilian favelas. I think even Argentina deals better with development than Brazil and Argentina is a shithole.

So what I'm saying is that Brazil is the India of Latin America, don't be fooled. Chile is like saying Turkey or Ukraine.

[CashRules]

Argentina isn't a real country. They try to steal islands from real countries and get their asses handed to them.

[sikax]

I think that most people don't think about these things very often or very deeply when they do think about them and so when confronted with a discussion/argument about a topic, they'll repeat buzzwords and present a hollow sham of a position that you hear as their genuine position but is really just them trying to participate. And then when you present your position in (correct) opposition, they get flustered and angry about it, not realizing their own inadequacies but perceiving you as attacking them, and more stupid shit flies out of their mouth. So, yeah, a person might be an educated scientist but I have no initial reason to believe he or she is educated in humanity's societal relations, i.e. feminism or whatever.

[Ptolemy_Banana]

Brazil? Why the fuck Brazil? Everything about Brazil is a scam. That's like saying India counts!

India does count.

[Dr_Liszt]

Brazil? Why the fuck Brazil? Everything about Brazil is a scam. That's like saying India counts!

India does count.

I know India is an economic power house, but also is a very third world country when it comes to human development and poverty. I really wouldn't want to be a woman living in India. So Brandon said that Brazil was the best country of Latin America because in appearance it does look like it, even I thought it was until I saw things more deeply. I personally don't define a country successful by how many pretty buildings it has, how technological their cities look, because you can't ignore the quality of life it provides. You have to take into account if people are able to leave poverty or if their needs are being attended. Here is where Brazil and consequently India fails.

Brazil's quality of life is very very poor, when you have Chile which also is economical stable but also provides a better human development to its population. And I would prefer to live in Uruguay first to Brazil, Uruguay's health indexes compares to countries of Europe. I've actually considered Uruguay as one of the countries to move.

[Dr_Liszt]

Argentina isn't a real country. They try to steal islands from real countries and get their asses handed to them.

Also, we once tried to take away Belize from the UK. The army was actually being assembled to take it over and the U.K sent like one ship, because it's Guatemala, one ship is enough. But instead of having our asses handed over, God decided to punish us with an earthquake.

Or save us... haven't decided yet.

[Anakin McFly]

Two most of the time.

What about the rest of the lesbians?

I think that most people don't think about these things very often or very deeply when they do think about them and so when confronted with a discussion/argument about a topic, they'll repeat buzzwords and present a hollow sham of a position that you hear as their genuine position but is really just them trying to participate. And then when you present your position in (correct) opposition, they get flustered and angry about it, not realizing their own inadequacies but perceiving you as attacking them, and more stupid shit flies out of their mouth. So, yeah, a person might be an educated scientist but I have no initial reason to believe he or she is educated in humanity's societal relations, i.e. feminism or whatever.

Yeah, that's true. Although you also get people who should be experts in the subject - like those occasional televised theist vs atheist debates between smart theologians/scientists who have apparently thought a lot about the topic, but their arguments are full of blatant loopholes and still fall far short of the ones we've had at the Pit. Or maybe we've just had lots of practice...

But things like chain mail, though. The ones that say 'Make a wish, then send this to 6 people and it will come true! I tried it and it actually worked!!!' My aunt and grandfather keep emailing me things like that, or those that talk about how the iPhone 6 is a sign of the end times because it has a '6' in it like '666', or how the liberals are destroying America. We're not even in America. I thought those things died out in the 1990s, but no.

[BruceSmith78]

Dear Friends; Please do not take this for a junk letter. Bill Gates sharing his fortune. If you ignore this, You will repent later. Microsoft and AOL are now the largest Internet companies and in an effort to make sure that Internet Explorer remains the most widely used program, Microsoft and AOL are running an e-mail beta test.

When you forward this e-mail to friends, Microsoft can and will track it ( If you are a Microsoft Windows user) For a two weeks time period.

For every person that you forward this e-mail to, Microsoft will pay you $245.00 For every person that you sent it to that forwards it on, Microsoft will pay you $243.00 and for every third person that receives it, You will be paid $241.00. Within two weeks, Microsoft will contact you for your address and then send you a check.

I thought this was a scam myself, But two weeks after receiving this e-mail and forwarding it on. Microsoft contacted me for my address and withindays, I receive a check for $24,800.00. You need to respond before the beta testing is over. If anyone can affoard this, Bill gates is the man.

It's all marketing expense to him. Please forward this to as many people as possible. You are bound to get at least $10,000.00. We're not going to help them out with their e-mail beta test without getting a little something for our time. My brother's girlfriend got in on this a few months ago. When i went to visit him for the Baylor/UT game. She showed me her check. It was for the sum of $4,324.44 and was stamped "Paid in full"

Like i said before, I know the law, and this is for real.

[Anakin McFly]

I've always wondered how those people seem to know the results of forwarding an email prior to forwarding an email. Unless of course they're just doing it again because it worked the first time, but that means that the first people they forwarded it to wouldn't get the benefit of knowing that it's been tested and not a scam.

[BruceSmith78]

You mean this part:

"I thought this was a scam myself, But two weeks after receiving this e-mail and forwarding it on. Microsoft contacted me for my address and withindays, I receive a check for $24,800.00."

Their verb conjugation doesn't even match up, as if the author isn't sure if the check is arriving in the present or the past. Maybe they have a flux capacitor?

[Anakin McFly]

Maybe they have a flux capacitor?

Obviously. We're just not thinking fourth-dimensionally.

[Cassius Clay]

The idea that education is the answer to oppressive beliefs is a liberal myth. Education is only helpful when your racist belief is purely based on ignorance. I think we should know by now that's not often the case. And I'm not shitting on education. It just annoys me that people insist on holding such a simplistic view. It perpetuates the idea that things like racism/sexism are just oopsy daisies...and not an intentional cultural agenda that have SPECIFIC purposes. It also subtly shifts the burden of oppression onto the oppressed...in the sense that it makes the oppressed responsible for their own oppression.

So, I believe the idea that education/ignorance is the sole 'cause of oppression is part of the agenda of the powers...to keep that power/agenda invisible.

[Dr_Liszt]

The idea that education is the answer to oppressive beliefs is a liberal myth. Education is only helpful when your racist belief is purely based on ignorance. I think we should know by now that's not often the case. And I'm not shitting on education. It just annoys me that people insist on holding such a simplistic view. It perpetuates the idea that things like racism/sexism are just oopsy daisies...and not an intentional cultural agenda that have SPECIFIC purposes. It also subtly shifts the burden of oppression onto the oppressed...in the sense that it makes the oppressed responsible for their own oppression.

So, I believe the idea that education/ignorance is the sole 'cause of oppression is part of the agenda of the powers...to keep that power/agenda invisible.

That is what I'm hearing a lot lately over here, since there's a girl who went to Spain to talk about Republic vs Populism where she slams Socialism and Marxism and praises Libertarianism.

What she is saying basically is that people have a responsibility to educate themselves via technology, empower themselves and become sources of wealth. So this is getting a lot of followings now a days and I don't know where to begin about how wrong all of that sounds. Besides that it's ridiculous to get an education from youtube.

[Cassius Clay]

I don't exactly have an issue with someone trying to empower and organize oppressed people. It depends on how it's framed. I specifically have an issue with oppressed people being blamed for their own oppression.

[Dr_Liszt]

I'm actually in favor of that kind of thinking. But the way this movement is going around is not exactly with reality. So it's like they want to empower them but at the same time they blame them. It's weird. Mainly because many people have pointed out that poor people are surviving, they don't have the time nor money to get into the internet, download some pdf book and read, but somehow pointing that out is falling into victimism.

Also, pointing out that minorities have it bad is falling into victimism because the smallest minority is the individual.
^ That's Libertarianism/Objectivism if anyone was wondering.

[Anakin McFly]

The idea that education is the answer to oppressive beliefs is a liberal myth. Education is only helpful when your racist belief is purely based on ignorance. I think we should know by now that's not often the case.

Not all of it, but a significant chunk of it is, and it's about getting as many people informed so that they can then influence the rest whose bigotry is not based in ignorance. It depends on the marginalisation in question, too - racism tends to be much less ignorance-informed than say homophobia, where people who understand what homosexuality is have been shown to have a significantly higher likelihood of not being homophobic. There was an organisation a while back that sent out about 3000 volunteer gay couples door to door somewhere in California to speak to families about gay rights, constituting about 12,000 conversations in total - and that resulted in a significant and lasting positive spike in attitudes towards gay people, and showed up in voting results over some LGBT-related policy. So education does do some good. Not for everyone, but it's at least an option that can be pursued and that is at least accessible for someone without the power to actively disrupt power structures.

At the same time, I don't consider this synonymous with blaming the oppressed for their own oppression. No one should be blamed for not wanting to educate others. But if it's something done willingly, there's no good reason to stop them; also, when there are more non-marginalised people who are educated and aware of this stuff, they too can educate others.

I also take a wider definition of education in general - it includes discussions like these, and those targetted at changing worldviews.