Bernie supporters not voting for Hilary.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:27 pm

Thing is I don't know what to do about it. Racist white men will seemingly always be racist. "Education" won't do anything. "Consciousness-raising" won't do anything. Trying to "teach" them that non-whites aren't, in fact, inferior in some vague sense to whites won't work because their racism doesn't stem from an honest misunderstanding in the first place. Raising their material standard of living probably won't do much; their desperation would be lessened but their racist attitudes would still be there, there's no reason to think making them richer would change that.

Basically, I want to know how to solve racism.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:58 pm

Murder...

(Seriously, it's not that just that they can't stop being racist, it's the decades of propaganda cultivating an addictive sense of unearned superiority. The only chance we have is to confront it as honestly as possible and hold people accountable. And there are too many people on the left who enable it by making excuses for it because it's somehow "easier" to avoid what's right in front of our faces.)

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:06 pm

Well, I did mention their life expectancy is decreasing and suicide is up. It seems our elites are already on it, only they're taking their time. They're just extending their suffering.

I have no problem with that.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:57 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... s-success/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:29 am

Interesting, and adds a bit more nuance. But also this:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... -rise.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A more holistic perspective would acknowledge that both decades-old neoliberalism and centuries-old white supremacy are working together to fuel the unprecedented rise of a proto-fascist to within hair width of the leader of the most powerful country in the world. It's near-impossible to disentangle the two and figure out exactly how they're working together, but the data, to me, makes it clear that the latter in this case is a far bigger factor than the former.

This Jacobin article from a while ago is still the best analysis I've seen yet of Trump's base. It shows that not only is income not much of a factor in his support, but (lack of) education isn't much of one either. Again, the underlying foundation is white supremacy/racial resentment. Ultimately it puts the blame on late-stage capitalism.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/05/trum ... -business/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:14 am

Derived Absurdity wrote: Basically, I want to know how to solve racism.

It is predicted that in the future the majority will be brown. So, say hello to your new master.

Anakin McFly · Post by **Anakin McFly** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:52 am

Thanks for the articles. I'd been leaning towards the poverty explanation because of the sense that claiming racism! was my class privilege showing.

Though there's still a strong correlation between poverty/lack of education and various forms of prejudice, which I don't know how to address without devolving into classism. There has to be a reason why so many racist rants on the internet have terrible grammar and spelling.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:31 pm

Racism and poverty *are* connected - through capitalism. There's a joke socialists tell: a banker, a white worker and a black worker sit down at a table with 10 cookies. The banker takes 9 cookies, then says to the white worker, "I'd keep an eye on that black guy. He's after your cookie."

Racism is a tool to keep the oppressed divided. You can see this in practice when people blame immigrants for unemployment. This is exactly what Trump is doing. Whether you prefer the poverty explanation or the racism explanation, the point remains, fascism is capitalism in decay. You can't stop fascism with more capitalism.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:48 pm

You say racism and poverty are connected, but your overall conclusion seems to be that poverty/capitalism are the real issues. People know how racism and capitalism are connected. What I and others take issue with is the way many "bros" on the left think the solution is to center class/capitalism and skip over racism, since class is the "real" issue. Both the race opportunists and racists must be held accountable. Racism holds socialism hostage because the white worker is so in love with the idea that the black worker is after his cookie because it massages his ego. In fact, the white worker helps the banker maintain his wealth because of racism. Racism is not just some side issue that comes out of capitalism...racism holds up capitalism. The banker used the white worker as a buffer, to protect himself and keep him out of reach. Trying to reach the banker without removing the buffer is foolishness. You cannot skip over racism and jump straight to capitalism 'cause you think it's the "real" issue. This is just another form of thinking that the solution to racism is ignoring it. Racism is the stumbling block to addressing capitalism and you cannot fix that by ignoring it. And the only reason racism is so central is because bigots make it central...because it's so important to them...and then they elect people based on those priorities. Stop making excuses for them. The white worker isn't just some sweet, innocent simpleton getting bamboozled by the bankers. He's in on it! Hold them accountable.

The fact still remains that America has been perpetually propagandized against anything even remotely resembling socialism for decades now.

This anti-socialist propaganda is effective precisely because it's tailored towards ppl whose bigotry prevents them from sharing and caring.

Y'all are pretending the issue is that no one ever effectively sold socialism to America, when really bigots just prefer racist capitalism.

We live in a country that fights tooth and nail to preserve the myth that only non-Whites benefit from govt services

read up on social security and how it almost never was b/c folk didn't want Blacks to have it.

every social program in America, be it schools, water regulation, or healthcare, has been hampered by racist selfishness.

systemic racism is the number one reason why we don't have socialism in America. It ain't the banks or the 1%ers.

The conservatives who love Trump weren't hooked by his faux economic populism. They came for the bigotry and oppression like they always do.

Some of these red states are damn near in 3rd world status because perpetuating Jim Crow is more important than having a functional govt.

They couldn't care less about the big banks because they're already convinced that Blacks, Muslims, and Mexicans are their worst enemies.

same greedy forces who are beholden to the corporations are also beholden to the racists back home who sent them to DC to kill change

They may be funded by the 1%, but the folk who voted them in are your bigoted neighbors, family and friends, closeted or otherwise

Those GOP voters are not voting to prop up the banks, that's only an intended consequence of riling them up to vote for White supremacy.

You can't just reason w/these folk that socialism is in their best interest. They've already decided that White privilege is most important.

Give Democratic voters a stark contrast to the GOP's bigotry. Don't hide behind economics when moral/human leadership is required.

That's how you summon the Obama coalition to the polls. That's how you win. Follow the blueprint.

It's very telling that the Democratic plea to White voters is always made through economic means, rather than a moral calling against hate.

Some of y'all get too wonky and forget folk need food for their souls, not just stats and figures on how the banks are robbing them.

GOP knows that better than anybody, that's why they're always appealing to their voters worst emotional instincts.

we miss a vital opportunity to change society and our toxic politics when we take the easy way out instead of the moral high ground.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:59 pm

I'm fine with all this, Cassius, and I agree with it, but how does that translate to voting for Clinton (the point of this thread)?

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:50 am

Had a busy day. Shall respond later.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:06 am

it's been thirteen days

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:05 am

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:50 am

oooh so you don't have time to talk politics with us but you do have time for dank memes, i see how it is

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:03 pm

Anakin McFly · Post by **Anakin McFly** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:54 am

For those of you planning to vote third party, use this: http://www.balancedrebellion.com

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:46 pm

I don't think Gary Johnson has a chance even if he makes it into the debates. The dude is an awful public speaker, maybe worse than Hillary.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:11 pm

An arrest warrant has been issued against Jill Stein for vandalism. Gary Johnson had never heard of Aleppo, Syria. I'm just done.

Monk · Post by **Monk** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:00 pm

The Aleppo thing was just...bad. He later said that he was just having a bit of a brain freeze, but his follow-up comments were just as bad.

When you recognize what's going on in Syria, when you recognize that Aleppo is in kinda the epicenter between ... Aleppo! Umm, knowing that there's a city between the two forces, really at the epicenter, but not remembering or recognizing that that's Aleppo ... guilty.

http://www.vox.com/2016/9/8/12847184/wh ... ry-johnson

I think of the Jill Stein thing as a publicity stunt. She needs just about any coverage she can get.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:20 pm

I'm really disappointed the libertarian party gave Johnson the nom. In an election with maybe the most turmoil in this country's history the dude is about as vanilla and uninspiring as you can get.

Post by **Gendo** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:26 pm

Boomer wrote:I'm really disappointed the libertarian party gave Johnson the nom. In an election with maybe the most turmoil in this country's history the dude is about as vanilla and uninspiring as you can get.

I'm disappointed that the Libertarian I voted for in the primaries, Marc Allan Feldman, died shortly after the primaries, and there's practically no news about it whatsoever. Not that many people actually end up on primary ballots for president of the United States, you'd think that the sudden and mysterious death of one of them would actually matter.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:06 pm

Boomer wrote:I don't think Gary Johnson has a chance even if he makes it into the debates. The dude is an awful public speaker, maybe worse than Hillary.

Good, because the dude is worse than both Hillary and Trump.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:44 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:
Boomer wrote:I don't think Gary Johnson has a chance even if he makes it into the debates. The dude is an awful public speaker, maybe worse than Hillary.
Good, because the dude is worse than both Hillary and Trump.

Please explain.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:27 pm

He's a libertarian.

QED.

But moreso, he's extraordinarily far-right and corporatist. He supports the TPP, he is (or at least was when he was governor) a strong champion of austerity, he supports private prisons, he wants to reduce funding for social programs, and he wants to radically reduce taxes for the super-wealthy by calling for a national consumption tax.

He takes the standard libertarian route of being extremely benevolent to the super-wealthy and super-powerful and being extremely harsh to the poor and working class. Not unlike Hillary, but he would probably even worse than her on that score.

Many people don't think libertarians are as bad as they are because they say they want to end wars and end many polices which oppress people, like restrictions on abortion and drugs. But they're very open in wanting to radically deepen existing inequalities in the economic sphere, which would just oppress people in different ways.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:37 pm

The main problem with pure libertarians is they are unable to see the inherent conflict between individual libertarianism and corporate libertarianism. That has actually led to rifts within the party itself as the hard-liners refuse to accept that a person can be libertarian and want to tax the fuck out of corporations.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:16 pm

I'd say Johnson is more of a moderate republican and any libertarian views he holds are from a purely utilitarian/pragmatic perspective as opposed to actually believing in a libertarian philosophy. I mean, he begged to have Bill Weld as his running mate ffs.

That said, I do take Johnson's anti-war stance at face value. That alone makes him far better than Trump or Hillary, IMO.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:16 pm

That's fair.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:58 am

lol propertarians.

We're lucky people don't take that pseudo "philosophy" seriously yet and those who do are on the psychopathic side that no one pays attention to them. So we're good so far. It's on the rise (Which as I said, is very important that Trump loses. I am going to put a candle to Virgin Mary every day now, to stop this madness.)

Also, seriously, your protest vote against ultra right corporatist fascism is another party that supports ultra right corporatist fascism?? Really?? Let's just end the world altogether now, not worth it.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:44 am

I'm most likely not going to vote since I live in a decidedly democratic state where Hillary will likely win by double digit points.

But, as I said, if I didn't believe it would be a complete waste of my time I'd gladly cast a vote for the only candidate I believe is sincere when he says he wants to end the US interventionist foreign policy and the resulting slaughter and mass murder that comes from it.

Gee, what a corporatist fascist schill I am.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:51 am

You don't think Jill Stein is sincere?

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:08 am

No, I think she's sincere and I should have phrased my post differently.

I was coming from the perspective that while I think Johnson's chances are slim to none that he can make a run in this campaign and/or spark a national conversation about the US election process, there's still a chance; I don't think Stein has any.

Also it's Friday night and I've been drinking.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:05 pm

An arrest warrant has been issued against Jill Stein for vandalism.

And?

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:54 pm

the_dork_lord wrote:
An arrest warrant has been issued against Jill Stein for vandalism.
And?

Death penalty offense.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:25 pm

Private companies were attempting to take clean drinking water away from these people. Jill Stein was outraged by this, so she "damaged" a bulldozer. (And I put "damaged" in quotes because it still works; it's just differently decorated.) Why do you give a shit about that?

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:44 pm

As far as personally giving a shit, I don't. She could have set fire to the damn thing for all I care. But as a Presidential candidate she should show some restraint if she has any hope of being taken seriously. I'm outraged by the existence of homophobic asswipes, but if I was running for political office and spray painted "BIGOT" on Jim Bob Duggar's mailbox then it would be ludicrous for me to even pretend to be a serious political candidate.

the_dork_lord · Post by **the_dork_lord** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:42 pm

There's a difference between spray painting BIGOT on Jim Bob Duggar's mailbox and spray painting a bulldozer that was going to be used to literally steal the means of life from people. What mechanism of protest is left to people who have had everything taken from them? Mass media wasn't covering Standing Rock. Now there's a modicum more attention being paid.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:14 pm

Okay, what the fuck is even happening with Hillary right now? This shit is starting to get scary.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:01 pm

Supposedly she has pneumonia but this just makes Trump look a lot better than he has any right to look. I'd prefer it if they both came down with a permanent case of comatose.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:12 am

Oh, so she has pneumonia, a deadly and infectious disease, and so just proceeded to hug a little girl hours after she fainted?

Man, fuck this shit. Everything about this is just so unbelievably shady. I hate it when the right-wing is proven right. I honestly cannot believe this campaign is happening. This is like a nightmare.

Monk · Post by **Monk** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:09 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:Oh, so she has pneumonia, a deadly and infectious disease, and so just proceeded to hug a little girl hours after she fainted?

Man, fuck this shit. Everything about this is just so unbelievably shady. I hate it when the right-wing is proven right. I honestly cannot believe this campaign is happening. This is like a nightmare.

Well, "walking pneumonia" is a far less hazardous, and not quite as contagious. Though I agree that she shouldn't have been hugging anyone.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:52 pm

But she needs physical contact to feed on the souls of her victims!

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:12 pm

Boomer wrote:I'm most likely not going to vote since I live in a decidedly democratic state where Hillary will likely win by double digit points.

Never trust people to do what you think they're going to do. People are bastards. People voted for the Nazis and Brexit, you can't trust people

Post by **Gendo** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:14 pm

Blade Azaezel wrote:
Boomer wrote:I'm most likely not going to vote since I live in a decidedly democratic state where Hillary will likely win by double digit points.

Never trust people to do what you think they're going to do. People are bastards. People voted for the Nazis and Brexit, you can't trust people

Blade Azaezel · Post by **Blade Azaezel** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:18 pm

Gendo wrote:
Blade Azaezel wrote:
Boomer wrote:I'm most likely not going to vote since I live in a decidedly democratic state where Hillary will likely win by double digit points.

Never trust people to do what you think they're going to do. People are bastards. People voted for the Nazis and Brexit, you can't trust people

Exactly. People will forever vote against their own self interests in the most absurd and mindboggling of ways. It's how we ended up with a fucking Tory government trying to bleed the middle classes dry whilst trying to bankrupt the working classes, and those on benefits, into extinction.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:41 pm

the_dork_lord wrote:I'm fine with all this, Cassius, and I agree with it, but how does that translate to voting for Clinton (the point of this thread)?

Sorry, had to run to the bathroom real quick.

You can look at my position as an indirect case for voting Clinton, but that's not really my point. I was more arguing against some of you guy's specific justifications against LEV and voting 3rd party(like your representation of the white working class, failing to build a movement in a less reckless/more meaningful way, etc).

My whole thing is out-voting white, male supremacy and the GOP. White supremacy needs to be out-voted on every level of government(and people actually show up and vote during midterms, instead of getting complacent or cynical). I think we can build from that, and I think we are finally getting to the point where that is possible. So, I think this is a crucial time. Socialist progress will be easier with white supremacy's governing influence neutralized. I think we are playing with fire, and risk taking many steps back by fucking around with Trump. I think too many people on the left are prioritizing the wrong issues(meaning, things we can actually control). Yes, everything is shit, but there are some problems that are more logistically fundamental to other problems, that we actually have more immediate control of by simply voting. Part of the reason this has been difficult is because dems do not always prioritize the needs of the most marginalized in the party(or on the left)...I'm talking about the marginalized who have voting power.

I support the coalition of voters that make this possible. If they supported Stein or Johnson and gave them a reasonable chance of winning, I would support those candidates too. But, as it stands, they are with Hillary, so I'm with her. It's more than about Clinton's record or personal character(which I'm suspecting is quite exaggerated in some ways). I just don't think it's time to throw a tantrum and say fuck everything because we can't get everything we wan't right now. I think there's a complacency in that attitude that has done a lot to create the situation we find ourselves in now, and then we turn around and blame it on LEV as a concept. If people were serious about building a proper 3rd party, it would have been done properly, from the bottom up...not just fixated on the general election every four years. If you're insisting on 3rd party and haven't really done the work to make that a reasonable proposition, then I think you're part of the problem. Dissatisfaction and complacency are a bizarre combination that really speak to privilege.

(If it wasn't already clear, out-voting white supremacy means neutralizing the voting power of those moved to vote by hate. I don't mean not voting for white men, or something like that.)

(Also, obviously the last bit does not involve the marginalized who feel they are fucked either way, so no links to articles by marginalized people who happen to agree with you this time, please. You are not in the same position they are in. A lot of people are fucked either way. The point is there is actually a coalition of marginalized people who can actually use their voting power to begin to do something about this shit. Complacency is the last thing we need. And using the situation of marginalized(who are going to suffer either way) to rationalize your complacency is fucked up.)

(And part of the reason "the left" has trouble has had trouble getting shit done is because it is not as unified as "the right". The hatred on the right is what unifies them(this unification is symbolized by their lack of diversity), but the left has never been unified in prioritizing voting against/neutralizing that hate. And then we blame it on LEV, rather than our lack of unity against hate, and then divide some more by voting 3rd party because "LEV is the real problem." It's just insanity to me. We're at a point where we can finally, consistently dominate the hate vote. I'm not going to help undermine that with pointless division.)

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:19 pm

One last thing:

Get real, people. If you live and prosper in America, you already have blood on your hands(that is, if you really want to reduce voting to that kind of thing). I'm not going to help throw away all the work marginalized people have done to get us to this point just because I'm desperately trying to maintain an illusion of having clean hands. In other words: the way I see it is that we're already in too deep, we've inherited something terrible and we are now responsible for managing it and minimizing damage. We can either 1) commit to working with what we have and slowly changing it from the inside, or 2) just wipe this country of the face of the earth(or some kind of major revolution). We can't do half-measures to rationalize having a clean conscience(by voting 3rd party, but not doing any real work). If you really want a clean conscience you gotta go hard in the paint, motherfuckers. Full-measures.

Post by **thesalmonofdoubt** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:40 am

"I support the coalition of voters that make this possible. If they supported Stein or Johnson and gave them a reasonable chance of winning, I would support those candidates too. But, as it stands, they are with Hillary, so I'm with her. It's more than about Clinton's record or personal character(which I'm suspecting is quite exaggerated in some ways). I just don't think it's time to throw a tantrum and say fuck everything because we can't get everything we wan't right now. I think there's a complacency in that attitude that has done a lot to create the situation we find ourselves in now, and then we turn around and blame it on LEV as a concept. If people were serious about building a proper 3rd party, it would have been done properly, from the bottom up...not just fixated on the general election every four years. If you're insisting on 3rd party and haven't really done the work to make that a reasonable proposition, then I think you're part of the problem. Dissatisfaction and complacency are a bizarre combination that really speak to privilege."

This I agree with - also, people are fixating on a handful of issues that appear to be similar between what Hilary actually does and what Trump says he will do and employing this to create a false equivalency.

There are multitudes of differences between these two candidates that run far deeper and have much more dramatic effects on both the local economy and the world economy that will have a direct bearing on the welfare of both the enfranchised and disenfranchised locally and globally.
Pretty much every agency that has reviewed the economic plans of both these candidates has come up with the same results. Under Hilary's proposed reforms, America's economy grows modestly in line with what it has been doing over the past 5 years. Under Trumps plan - the rich get richer, millions of jobs are lost and your GDP shrinks. I'm yet to read a glowing report of Trumps Regonomics reformed.

Beyond that - from an international relations POV - Trump is a disaster, he says what he thinks as he thinks it with no thought to consequence or fact. That doesn't play out well on the world stage and will have a direct bearing on how America trades with the rest of the world which will also have a knock on effect on your local economy.
Under Hilary - I do see potential for building back Small business and refilling the middle class - under trump you will see the same corporations that avoid paying the 35% corporate tax using the same vehicles to avoid paying the 15% tax .. No jobs will move back on shore cos Tax isn't the issue even if its the proposed fix .. and all of this means super bad things for people struggling to make ends meet now while the rich will make a killing taking advantage of the collapsing market.

Anakin McFly · Post by **Anakin McFly** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:23 am

Historically, markets have also fallen following the election of someone from the non-incumbent party (due to deals needing to be renegotiated etc), so Trump's election on its own would negatively affect the global markets, which will have far reaching effects on people around the world, and that's before he gets to work doing his stuff - whereupon it's quite possible he may send us into a recession.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:17 pm

Though, the one good thing about Trump is that he wasn't very good at dog-whistling, and finally exposed the GOP for what it is. Being a narcissist that can't play well with others, he just came in and shamelessly exploited the hate on the right for his own benefit, but at the long-term expense of the GOP strategy. They used to be more subtle with it, used to be easier to rationalize; I wonder how evangelicals are rationalizing their support for Trump now. But since Trump straight up "gave the game away" like no one has ever before, it may finally wake a lot of folks up and motivate/unify people to stamp out the hate vote on the right - we need to save the US from itself. America(and, really, the rest of the world) cannot continue to be held hostage by the petulant, self-destructive, narcissistic right.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:38 pm

And I know we still need to deal with capitalism and US foreign policy(and capitalistic imperialism), but too many on the left are trying to skip some very crucial steps in getting to that point. We can't ignore the cultural sickness in this country, while trying to skip to a utopia. Half the country is holding hostage the government of the most powerful country in the world because of narcissistic ideologies. Why the hell are people ignoring that? Naivety? Privilege? Political ignorance? I'm willing to make some compromises to stamp out this sickness, and I don't see that merely as LEV - as if I'm just resigned to something I don't really want. No, I'm eager and feel invigorated by the thought of out-voting the hate vote.

And the way some folks on the left have this somewhat resigned attitude towards the GOP is troubling. "Well, GOP is gonna GOP and boys will be boys, so let's just police ourselves and foolishly divide." Reminds me of something I've seen happen a lot in comments sections. Where some racist trolls are spewing a lot of anti-black rhetoric, and then a black person responds with a snarky insult about white people(or, sometimes, not even about white people in general), or whatever, and in comes some white "liberal" dude deciding to lecture the black person about not "stooping to their level" and being "divisive". Instead of arguing with, or cursing out the racist trolls, they decide to focus their energy on scolding the black person responding. That kind of myopic, self-important behavior is more enraging that racist trolls being explicitly racist. I believe people who do this rationalize to themselves that there is nothing they can do about "racist trolls" since you can't reason with them, so you should instead focus your energies policing people you perceive as being on your "side". However, privilege makes them blind to how much more meaningful it would be have the black person's back and tell the racists to fuck off, than it would be to lecture a black person on how to respond to hate. There are times where it's more appropriate to focus on policing ourselves, and times where that is pure bullshit and we have to unify against hate. Too many on the left don't know how/when to respond to/unify against hate.

Something similar happened on RFS when I was arguing with AJ about appropriation and white dreadlocks. He expressed a lot of faux-outrage over how racist I was being for calling white dreadlocks filthy. When I asked him why he was so bizarrely offended, he claimed it's because he can't stand racism and will always stand up against it. But, get this...the thread we argued on was filled with all types of deranged anti-black rhetoric...which he completely ignored. When I called him out for ignoring all that and coming after me for saying something mean about white people, he said it's because he won't waste his time arguing with racist trolls, but he sees me as being more "reasonable" or something.