"I don't find [X] people very attractive"

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:38 pm

I sort of hear this phrase a lot, on places like reddit and facebook and whatnot. I don't really know what to think of it, or what to say to the person who says it. Like, okay, my first instinct is to write the dude off (because it's mostly white dudes who I hear say it) as racist and be done with it, because I don't know how you can just write off an entire race of people as unnattractive unless you have some serious racial issues buried in your psyche. (And a lot of those comments are on reddit... and I generally don't think you really deserve the benefit of the doubt if you post on reddit when it comes to race, knowing the history of that site.)

But yeah, when confronted people always say that just saying "I don't find [x] people attractive" isn't inherently racist, and I've heard it come sometimes from people who I'm fairly confident aren't racist, at least not explicitly. That "it's just a personal preference, I can't help who I'm attracted to, everyone has their preferences," etc. And I used to accept this argument, but it doesn't really make any sense to me anymore now I think about it, and it seems to me to be mostly a rationalization now. I mean, first of all, I can't really sympathize with it on a personal level, as I haven't noticed in myself any "preference" for any particular race over any other, so I can't really imagine it even if it's true. But moreover, I just can't imagine how your "personal preference" can simply exclude an entire race of people, knowing the huge and wild variety of physical characteristics present within all races. Individuals within races simply aren't homogenous enough to really make such a broad generalization of their attractiveness. So that... can't really work. I mean, what, you don't think Halle Berry is hot because of, what, her black skin? Black skin just immediately turns you off? You can really google "hot black women" or whatever and say that none of them turn you on? Bullshit. How can you do that and not have some serious racial issues?

So I can't really help but think that that's a pretty major problem if you can just simply say "I don't find [x] attractive" and leave it at that, as if you don't think there's a problem with that and that it's just how it is. Because even if it's not a problem with you - even if you don't harbor racist beliefs which preclude you from finding an entire race attractive - there's a fairly good chance that that "preference" still isn't simply a personal preference and is heavily influenced by racial beauty standards in your culture. We know what we find attractive is heavily influenced by what our culture thinks is attractive. If you don't think [x] is attractive, then if that's not a problem with you... it's a problem with the culture. Either way, it's worth examining and critiquing, instead of just shrugging it off like it's completely harmless as people always do when they say this. So the fact that people think this is perfectly ok and that it's no big deal sort of bothers me.

Thoughts? Or am I making too big a deal about this. Maybe saying "I don't find [x] people very attractive" is perfectly ok and there's nothing more to it.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:41 pm

No, you're not making too big of a deal out of it. It's just another of the memes that tip you off that someone is trying to hide their racism. It's no different than the classic "I'm not a racist, but..." where you can bet your last dollar the "but" is followed by some racist bullshit.

Post by **Gendo** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:47 pm

What about "I tend to be more attracted to X than Y"? X and Y could possibly be race-related, or maybe not at all... I tend to be more attracted to brunettes than blondes. I also tend to be more attracted to Asians than Caucasians. To me, this seems different than the statement in the title... because it's not saying that a certain type of person isn't attractive to you; but instead talking about things as averages, not absolutes. Does that make it any better?

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:47 pm

CashRules wrote:No, you're not making too big of a deal out of it. It's just another of the memes that tip you off that someone is trying to hide their racism. It's no different than the classic "I'm not a racist, but..." where you can bet your last dollar the "but" is followed by some racist bullshit.

Okay, but what if they say "I'm not racist, but I could really go for some hot spinach salad right now?" See, I think you might be a bit paranoid there.

Post by **Gendo** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:49 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:
CashRules wrote: hot spinach salad

How dare you use such offensive slurs.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:54 pm

Stop limiting my freedom of speech.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:56 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:
CashRules wrote:No, you're not making too big of a deal out of it. It's just another of the memes that tip you off that someone is trying to hide their racism. It's no different than the classic "I'm not a racist, but..." where you can bet your last dollar the "but" is followed by some racist bullshit.
Okay, but what if they say "I'm not racist, but I could really go for some hot spinach salad right now?" See, I think you might be a bit paranoid there.

^Vegasing.

Whitey · Post by **Whitey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:56 pm

I think people who outright state they don't find a certain race attractive, have some issues. I certainly have my preferences, and could probably say I tend to prefer a certain race over others, but there's people of all races I like.

Even if you make it about another physical feature, such as hair colour. I tend to like dark hair and also ginger hair, blonde hair doesn't really do it for me as much as other colours. But you can bet there's some blondes I think are very attractive, and some that suit being blonde better. To say you outright don't like people with a certain feature be that skin colour, hair colour, body type, etc, seems close minded.

phe_de · Post by **phe_de** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:But yeah, when confronted people always say that just saying "I don't find [x] people attractive" isn't inherently racist, and I've heard it come sometimes from people who I'm fairly confident aren't racist, at least not explicitly. That "it's just a personal preference, I can't help who I'm attracted to, everyone has their preferences," etc. And I used to accept this argument, but it doesn't really make any sense to me anymore now I think about it, and it seems to me to be mostly a rationalization now. I mean, first of all, I can't really sympathize with it on a personal level, as I haven't noticed in myself any "preference" for any particular race over any other, so I can't really imagine it even if it's true. But moreover, I just can't imagine how your "personal preference" can simply exclude an entire race of people, knowing the huge and wild variety of physical characteristics present within all races.

What about if you don't make it about race, but gender? Or weight?
If you don't find women attractive in general (because you're a gay man or a straight woman), does this mean you're sexist?
If you don't find overweight people attractive in general, does this mean you're, well whatever it is called when you discriminate fat people?

Truly open-minded people don't love people because they have certain physical features; they love them for who they are (the entire person; race and gender are just parts of them). I am not truly open-minded.
But then, I'm a 47 year old virgin, so what do I know...

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:34 pm

This is a complicated issue(and a huge conversation within the black community)...but, yes, love and attraction are definitely political. People can't pretend that racial "preferences" exist in a vacuum. And sexual orientation is distinct from "preference".

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:35 pm

Gendo wrote:What about "I tend to be more attracted to X than Y"? X and Y could possibly be race-related, or maybe not at all... I tend to be more attracted to brunettes than blondes. I also tend to be more attracted to Asians than Caucasians. To me, this seems different than the statement in the title... because it's not saying that a certain type of person isn't attractive to you; but instead talking about things as averages, not absolutes. Does that make it any better?

Idk. I think you're just hair racist.

I guess I can't really deny that people have racial preferences. But often they're intertwined with your own psychological racial prejudices and your culture's racial beauty standards. Those should always be taken into account.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:37 pm

phe_de wrote: If you don't find women attractive in general (because you're a gay man or a straight woman), does this mean you're sexist?

Yes.

Post by **thesalmonofdoubt** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:44 pm

I think people who outright state they don't find a certain race attractive, have some issues. I certainly have my preferences, and could probably say I tend to prefer a certain race over others, but there's people of all races I like.

Kiinda in the middle ground with this - If I hear someone say "they don't find "race X" attractive, I tend to think they are being general rather than absolute, in so much as they generally don't find certain physical features of certain groups attractive but individually, they can and do find specific people of certain races attractive. That's pretty much how it works for me and it varies.

For example, I generally find Asian women attractive but rarely think Asian men are - while I generally find Black men more attractive than black women. I almost always find mixed races to be more attractive than say being white, black or Asian...

And I really don't see why that wouldn't make sense without automatically having to go to racist. Most people are attractive to physical specifics to a degree and when you think of a specific race you think of a set of physical characteristics that describe that race.. I guess at a general level it comes down to whether you specifically find those physical features attractive or not.

**edit** having said that - I also strongly believe socialisation affects what we find attractive whether that be cultural or specific to the person - and evolution plays its part there as well. Overall the rules of attraction are complicated and I'd be loathe to come up with a specific reason as to why someone finds something attractive over something else anymore than I'd be comfortable attributing sexuality to a specific reason.

At a level, I don't think of it as being all that different from saying a gay man doesn't generally find a women attractive =/= mysogony. Its just a more high level exclusion based on a set of physical attributes

Unvoiced_Apollo · Post by **Unvoiced_Apollo** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:55 pm

Derived Absurdity wrote:
Gendo wrote:What about "I tend to be more attracted to X than Y"? X and Y could possibly be race-related, or maybe not at all... I tend to be more attracted to brunettes than blondes. I also tend to be more attracted to Asians than Caucasians. To me, this seems different than the statement in the title... because it's not saying that a certain type of person isn't attractive to you; but instead talking about things as averages, not absolutes. Does that make it any better?
Idk. I think you're just hair racist.

I guess I can't really deny that people have racial preferences. But often they're intertwined with your own psychological racial prejudices and your culture's racial beauty standards. Those should always be taken into account.

This. I will wade deep into the sh!t and admit there was a time I used to think the exact title of this thread about a certain race. More time spent with people of that racd changed that though. Also admitting it was racist helped with that as well.

Post by **Islandmur** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 am

Don't know I tend not to be attracted to whites in general, the pale skin, the complexion, the hair, usually do nothing for me.

There are certain types of whites I do find attractive like hugh jackman, victor Webster, but I think it's because they don't look "white white". lol don't know if that made any sense.

Mostly thought eyes, lips, hands are physical traits that i'm attracted to, and I can bypass all of what i've said here if I find the personality attractive.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:40 am

Unvoiced_Apollo wrote:
Derived Absurdity wrote:
Gendo wrote:What about "I tend to be more attracted to X than Y"? X and Y could possibly be race-related, or maybe not at all... I tend to be more attracted to brunettes than blondes. I also tend to be more attracted to Asians than Caucasians. To me, this seems different than the statement in the title... because it's not saying that a certain type of person isn't attractive to you; but instead talking about things as averages, not absolutes. Does that make it any better?
Idk. I think you're just hair racist.

I guess I can't really deny that people have racial preferences. But often they're intertwined with your own psychological racial prejudices and your culture's racial beauty standards. Those should always be taken into account.
This. I will wade deep into the sh!t and admit there was a time I used to think the exact title of this thread about a certain race. More time spent with people of that racd changed that though. Also admitting it was racist helped with that as well.

People like round eyes, straight noses, high cheekbones, pouty lips regardless of race. Also the face has to be symmetrical since it means better development regardless of race. Also white features are often desired or found more attractive, regardless of race. But I've also seen how black features are considered extremely attractive, like big lips are an attractive feature and black people tend to meet up a lot of western ideals of what is beautiful but because of racism they get overlooked. (Like for example Kim Kardashian is considered extremely attractive yet shares a lot of features found in the black race.)

When I say I don't like Asians, I mean I generally tend not to like Asians, but there are some Asian men I find extremely attractive. The same with blondes, I don't like blondes yet I find Jamie Bamber attractive.

Also in my culture at least, when you see articles that say Swedish and Ukrainian women are the most beautiful, you'd fine a lot of "ummm.. no. No... just no." from men here. And then you hear that Brazilian women are the most beautiful in Latin America, if you ask us here, you'll hear a lot of "ummm... no. No... just no." So the explanation my friends give is that Swedish girls are unfeminine they look butch, Ukranians are like "meh" and Brazilian women are in average dark. (yes, racism) The women in Brazil who are attractive are usually in the south and those women look like your average woman walking in the streets of Buenos Aires. So they tend to like girls from Colombia or Venezuela, who are white, curvy and still manage to be feminine. If you ask Latin Americans, Colombia is the place to go for attractive people. (I agree, there are a lot of hot colombians.) But browsing a racist northern European thread a while ago, I read the opposite, how to them the northern girls are more feminine and woman-like and the southern/brown people are more butch. So I think it's cultural because I see northern Europeans as butch and graceless yet I find people from Italy, basically all of Southern Europe, Southern Cone and Colombia like fine pieces of art. Especially Chileans and Uruguayans they are probably the most attractive.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:47 am

I think this video covers some of the racist aspects of racial preference. Darker skin is socialized as masculine, and lighter skin as feminine.

BruceSmith78 · Post by **BruceSmith78** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:45 pm

I don't like red heads. I'm sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but I don't like freckles and I just don't really care for the hair color, and they tend to have sharp, harsh facial features which I don't really go for either.

Kind of a tangent there, and not really an answer to the OP, but whatever. I guess it's an example of "I don't find x very attractive" that's not racist, although maybe it's a bit bigoted, and I'm not saying I could never find a red head attractive.

Unvoiced_Apollo · Post by **Unvoiced_Apollo** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:34 pm

BruceSmith78 wrote:I don't like red heads. I'm sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but I don't like freckles and I just don't really care for the hair color, and they tend to have sharp, harsh facial features which I don't really go for either.

Kind of a tangent there, and not really an answer to the OP, but whatever. I guess it's an example of "I don't find x very attractive" that's not racist, although maybe it's a bit bigoted, and I'm not saying I could never find a red head attractive.

What you're really saying is that you don't like the Irish or Scots, you racist bastard.

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:59 pm

Anyone who doesn't think that their opinions of what is attractive is influenced by what society deems attractive to at least some degree is kidding themselves, IMO. I just got back from work and I'm tired and I can't brain right and I wrote about this somewhere else ages ago, much better, but yeah. That.

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:01 pm

Dr_Liszt wrote:The same with blondes, I don't like blondes yet I find Jamie Bamber attractive.

Jamie Bamber is fine as hell but he's not blond.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:07 pm

He is. He died his hair black for battestar gallactica.

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:12 pm

Did he also dye it for Law and Order UK and Outcasts and Horatio Hornblower?

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:13 pm

He was blonde in some of those!

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:15 pm

I think freckles can be cute when it's not too much. Though, I have found a couple heavily-freckled women attractive. I think darker skin is generally more attractive, but pale skin can be attractive when combined with other attributes...like light freckles and the contrast with really dark hair. I think Molly Parker from House of Cards and Deadwood is gorgeous. I don't like pale skin with light blonde hair...though I have found some women with those features attractive. Full lips and broader noses are generally more attractive on darker skin...those features don't go to well with really light skin. That's why albinos with full lips and noses seem unattractive (basically, white skin is ugly

). There is a gorgeous Nigerian actress(I think her name is Genevieve) with fuller features and beautiful dark skin. Basically, I find all women attractive.

I really have heard a theory that tiny/slight features (like a thin nose, lips, etc) exploded in white populations not merely because of weather, but because those features are generally more appealing on paler skin.

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:15 pm

LIESSSSSSS

I am taking this very seriously. He was like, pale brown. That's still brown. Don't make me do a vote thread on what colour Jamie Bamber's hair is. BECAUSE I WILL GO THERE.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:17 pm

Jamie Bamber's hair is brown. To say otherwise is just silly.

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:18 pm

CashRules wrote:Jamie Bamber's hair is brown. To say otherwise is just silly.

You should all listen to this handsome man.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:21 pm

aels wrote:LIESSSSSSS

I am taking this very seriously. He was like, pale brown. That's still brown. Don't make me do a vote thread on what colour Jamie Bamber's hair is. BECAUSE I WILL GO THERE.

Why are you so funny?

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:25 pm

Because I'm sleep-deprived! YEEEAAH

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:25 pm

Who..da fuck...is this Jamie Bamber bitch?

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:25 pm

Apollo on Battlestar Galactica

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:39 pm

I'm posting this to help Cassius.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:45 pm

You should post one where he looks blonde.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:46 pm

My eyes!

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:59 pm

I Googled 'Jamie Bamber blond' and image search gave me this, a CLEARLY BRUNET MAN:

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:01 pm

That's blonde!!!

But I want to fight this later. I've been sick since yesterday and it hurts.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:04 pm

That's Lannister "blond".

My girlfriend always jokes that whites and non-whites have very different ideas as to what counts as blond. She has been described as blonde by a lot of non-white people, but her hair looks more like the above pic.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:06 pm

Yeah, I'm described as fair skinned or white over here.

I'm not compared to real white people.

Cinemachinery · Post by **Cinemachinery** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:17 pm

I'm not sure I'd say "I don't find any east-Asian women sexually appealing" but I've yet to see one that struck me viscerally in that fashion.

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:35 pm

There is an obsession westerners(especially white men) have of Asian women that often crosses the line into creepy and racist. I have found many Asian women attractive, but never understood that obsession. I never used to find Lucy Liu attractive, but she has become a damn goddess. Girl is foooooiiine!

Edit: There are also some rare traits like dark skin and blonde hair(that some Melanesians have) that I don't think I would find attractive.

Unvoiced_Apollo · Post by **Unvoiced_Apollo** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Dr_Liszt wrote:That's blonde!!!

But I want to fight this later. I've been sick since yesterday and it hurts.

Even I know to look at the roots. That is clearly brunette died blonde.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:17 pm

The obsession with Asian women is indeed very creepy. It's because there's an idea (I've seen it mostly in Manosphere and red pill circles) that Asian women are submissive and sexualized and overly feminine. They get their conceptions of Asians from porn and "Asian dating" sites.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:40 pm

What is this? What IS this?

Sorry this thread got deviated. I'm sure it was supposed to be about serious topics. But hair is a serious topic... so.....

Post by **aels** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:53 pm

LIGHT BROWN

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:04 pm

Um, both of those pics are obviously blonde. Dafuq is up with you people?

Um... does this mean I'm non-white?

Cassius Clay · Post by **Cassius Clay** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:17 pm

I just looked up pictures of Lucy Liu and realized that she's lightly freckled. Dafuq? Never noticed before. It's like I knew it, but it never registered. Haven't seen a lot of Asians with freckles.

CashRules · Post by **CashRules** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:21 pm

The first pic is obviously brown and the second is obviously dyed.

Dr_Liszt · Post by **Dr_Liszt** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:22 pm

This thread reminds me to the dress debate that broke the internet.
The dress was gold and light blue.

Derived Absurdity · Post by **Derived Absurdity** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:23 pm

I said they're blonde and it's my thread, so they're blonde. You want to say they're not, you got to make your own thread.