Is it classist to think these dreams suck

[Anakin McFly]

Because they do.

https://uobincomebuilder.com.sg/dream-gallery

Click for most popular. The current top voted entry is someone saying that his dream is to marry his girlfriend because he loves her!!! The second one is someone saying that his dream is to buy a house with "a very big fish pond".

I'm really annoyed at my generation right now. I ranted about this on Facebook for a bit, then wondered if it could be seen as classist because perhaps some people don't have the luxury to dream beyond wanting a wedding and a roof over their heads with a fish pond. But this is Singapore, where 90%+ of people own their own homes. It's going to happen for the vast majority of people. And that top voted guy is young and straight and I see no reason why he needs to win $20k in a contest in order to get married. People mired in poverty manage to get married all the time.

Plus, it's not like it's only poor people who claim to have those dreams, because I asked a bunch of college students interning at my company, and they said that yeah their ultimate dreams in life were to buy a house and a cool car. I know those kids are ridiculously rich and spend money in terrifying ways, and the thought that their one burning passion and ultimate goal in life is to buy a house and vehicle just makes me very sad and disillusioned with humanity.

(There were a few entries on that site which seem far more meaningful: like wanting to support their cancer-stricken father, or give to causes close to their hearts, or provide a better future for their special needs kid, or even personal stuff like starting their own business. But those got nowhere near the number of votes as that dude who wants to marry his girlfriend.)

[Dr_Liszt]

Oh you poor first worlder! I don't know if I should comment on this because that whole post was just another world for me. Is fascinating.

[aels]

My colleague and I were talking about how we'd like to earn enough to buy something nice for lunch every day and then we looked sad because our dreams are so incredibly small

I don't know, my viewpoint is incredibly warped by the fact that almost everyone I know is struggling financially so someone saying they'd really like their own home or a new car is not that weird to me. To be honest, even rich people saying that their ultimate dream is to own an amazing house or a kickass car doesn't really bother me. Yeah, there are probably deeper and more meaningful aspirations to have but I can't fault people for being shallow because I am capable of being tremendously shallow (read: spending like an hour on Lindybop sighing that I can't afford the dresses and oh, what I wouldn't give for a million pounds, etc).

(That guy talking about his girlfriend is probably just trying to score Excellent Boyfriend Points)

[Anakin McFly]

@Liszt - Nah, I welcome your input. I'm not even sure how I *should* feel about this, and how much of my opinions come from a point of privilege. I'd completely understand if someone from a developing country yearns for a life of safety with all their needs met and all that other stuff we take for granted here, and has no room for other dreams. But for people in first-world countries who are well-off, much richer than me and likely already have those needs met, it was frustrating to me that their aspirations were limited to the material.

@aels - yeah, good point. I guess I grew up with the idea that dreams are supposed to be more fantastical stuff. Things like wanting good stuff to eat or a nice house or car feel like things most people would want, and wouldn't necessarily be categorised as dreams, which I felt should be more like individual things that would go beyond that. Like to to be an astronaut, or to cure cancer, or fight poverty and injustice, or help a dying loved one complete their bucket list or something.

[aels]

I think it's also kinda constrained by the fact that these people are trying to win money (if I'm understanding right). So there are dreams that, practically, can't achieved with money. Like, you might have a dream to become a world-famous writer but money is probably not going to help you achieve that and so you might as well say 'Well, if there's money going, I'd quite like a nice car'.

[BruceSmith78]

I don't have any dreams. When you get older and the weight of the world breaks your spirit, you realize dreams are for children.

[Anakin McFly]

@Bruce -

@aels - that's a good point, I forgot about that. Though I've also asked the interns about their dreams and they said the same things, even if money would be no object.

[aels]

If it helps detract from the lack of imagination shown by your interns, at least one of the things on my list of dreams is a unicorn.

[Dr_Liszt]

My dream right now is to win the ORE so I can be a dentist in the UK or win 50,000 pounds so I can study Pedodontics in the UK.

The first one seems a little bit more viable.

[Anakin McFly]

^See, that's a dream. Although now I'm probably just dream-policing.

What's the ORE?

[Blade Azaezel]

My dream is to finally own a house. A good, old fashioned, middle class dream being slowly taken from me by the Tories. So if I'm losing out, I dread to think what it's like for the proles and the scroungers.

[thesalmonofdoubt]

Yeah - see I'm not sure if its classist or otherwise, I think it really just comes down to what people think may make them happy. There doesn't have to be a Fantastical sliding scale applied to that.
In my view, people that dream small and are satisfied by working towards things that they can reasonably achieve are more likely to be happier in the long run.

What's the point of dreaming of one day being a famous actor if that then forms your criteria for being satisfied with you life if there is practically no chance of that even happening? To me, its about being pragmatic and working towards realistic goals. By all means, dream as big as you like but that doesn't make your desires anymore valuable than whatever someone else considers to be an ideal regardless of your current financial status.

That - and as Bruce said - Life. I think the aspirations you set for yourself when you are young change over time when you become older. You go from having these enormous dreams of a life less ordinary to genuinely just wanting to be happy, secure, well fed and healthy.. and I don't think this is a sad thing at all, you just par down on the things that you think will make you happy to the point where you are more in tune with the things that you know will make you happy.

[Anakin McFly]

True. I guess this Calvin & Hobbes strip is relevant: http://www.financial-spread-betting.com ... onaire.jpg

Though I also think of all the important people in history who made or are making a difference, and they were driven by dreams - particularly in the case of MLK Jr and his "I have a dream" speech. If more people had those kinds of dreams and devoted themselves to some greater purpose, even if most of them failed, who knows how much further we could progress as a species? (Granted, sometimes you get people like Hitler whose dreams just make things suck for everyone.)

On an individual and less selfless scale, the loss of childhood hope and innocence in the face of reality is disheartening. I used to mark high school essays where the 14/15 year olds were talking about all their grand hopes for humanity and burning desire to fight injustices and poverty and save the environment and put an end to war and help people and whatnot, and all the amazing things they wanted to do when they grew up, angry that adults weren't doing anything to solve the problems in the world. It's a bit sad to know that most of them probably lost that drive when they reached adulthood, and have basically become the very people they used to be frustrated with.

[aels]

https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights/statu ... 7761329152

[aels]

I was one of those kids who was incredibly idealistic and wanted to save the world. I still want to help people but age has given me an understanding of things I didn't understand as a young'un. I didn't understand power structures in the way that I do now, or microaggressions, or internalised prejudice, or that social change is generally a long, grisly war of attrition that you will perpetually be trying to defend. It's been almost fifty years since the death of MLK and the best we can say is that racism in the US is not as bad as it was under segregation. Fifty years and tireless work from thousands upon thousands of activists and the system is still broken. I'm not trying to be defeatist about it at all, but I think most people come to realise that they aren't going to save the world. They might only be able to make small changes in their lives and the lives of those around them (which adds up to something a lot bigger but is a lot smaller in scope, dreamwise).

I kinda live by this now: http://tahtahtahtia.tumblr.com/post/996 ... ing-kindof

It's okay if the only person you save is you. It's okay if your big contribution to saving the world is being a good person and trying to help other people around you, even if you never solve the problems of the world. Being a good person is my dream (and not being disabled and also my boyfriend being here and also maybe a lottery win).

[Anakin McFly]

<3

A throne made out of breadsticks is an awesome dream though. D:

I love that approach you mention, and so often it's tempting to do that. But one of the main things stopping me is knowing that I'm in a very good position to potentially change a lot of things in my country for the better, and there are things that I can do which other people wouldn't have the opportunities/abilities/privileges to. e.g. my main passion is for LGBT rights in my country - being gay is still illegal and there is homophobia everywhere - and so much of that is coming from the Christian church. I'm an active member of the only LGBT-affirming Christian church in the entire country, with about 100+ regular members.

I'm currently one of their communications people, helping to proofread their English and eventually write material for their website. I've been co-facilitating its bi-annual support group for gay men trying to reconcile their faith and sexuality, and heal from all the abuse and crap they've suffered from their families and friends and churches. Almost every LGBT Christian and a few non-Christians in the country will at some point step through our doors (including some local celebrities and international LGBT activists, which was freaking awesome). And I have a chance to make a real difference in their lives, which I've already been able to do for a few people. My pastor currently uses me as the main go-to person every time there's a trans person who comes by seeking help - usually directing them to resources, or just chatting with them so they feel less alone. In one case I went to talk with the Christian parents of a trans girl, and got them in touch with my parents, and now instead of reparative therapy she's well into transition and doing great in Canada. I'm now working with her mom on writing a book explaining what being trans is all about, putting it within a Singaporean framework (no such book currently exists) and tackling the objections that Christians in particular might have. We hope to publish it; there are a few famous local writers who are friends of friends, so I'll be getting in touch with them and seeing if they can help. If that gets published, it might just possibly save lives, and at the very least act as a firm counter to all the disgusting misinformation and bigotry currently being spewed all over the place. Helping with that book feels like one of the things that only I can do; I'm not sure where else they would have found a writer willing to work for free who has professional experience in editing and an intimate knowledge of transgender issues, Christianity, and the English language. (A lot of my religious knowledge I owe to the Pit and the many debates we had.) I've also ghostwritten a speech and article for two LGBT activists so far, one reaching an audience of more than 30k and the other an audience of more than 50k. That was awesome.

So yeah, stuff like that. I know there are concrete things that I can do and that will almost definitely help a lot of people, and it feels like a responsibility that I shouldn't run away from, even though sometimes I'm tired and want to just drop everything and go live on a boat somewhere and write sci-fi poetry beneath the sunset. Sometimes people subtly guilt-trip me about wasting my time on frivolous stuff, because that happens when hanging out in activist circles. >_> So many of them are doing so much more and really devoting their lives to social justice, perpetually concerned with the concerns of the world and all the bad stuff happening everywhere. But it seems like they're angry and depressed all the time, and I can't live like that either.

I'm trying to reach a place of understanding that I don't have to do this stuff, but that I can do things because I want to - which I do. And maybe I'm jealous of people who can just dream about having a house one day, because I'd love that, but I also can't bear to turn my back on people in trouble who need help that I'm best placed to provide.

But yeah - like you I've also come to realise that social change happens very slowly and there's not much we can do as individuals. It's been a relief in some way to know that things will hopefully keep moving forward and get a little better each generation, even if I spent the rest of my life doing nothing but playing video games. So my current strategy is to focus on just the things that only I can do, and aim to save individual people and myself, rather than the world. It'll keep turning.

Thanks for the tumblr quote. I'll save it and try to remember it. :)

[aels]

It is rad as fuck that you can do these things and want to do these things and I am massively proud of you I think knowing that you don't *have* to do it is an important part of it. Quite a big part of me coming to terms with my disability has been trying to get myself to understand that I can't necessarily do the things I want to do or have the life I wanted to have and that it doesn't mean that I'm somehow living my life wrong if I don't do those things. And the same goes for mental health. I don't debate a lot of stuff online any more because it was making me really ill and unhappy. So you basically need to be Venusaur in this metaphor:

[Blade Azaezel]

That's really unfair on Venusaur, because he releases a fucking apocalyptic solar beam like 2 seconds after that screenshot.

[aels]

You don't need to defend Bulbasaur and all Bulbasaur derivatives to me because I know (LIKE EVERYONE KNOWS DEEP DOWN EVEN IF THEY TRY TO FIGHT IT) he is the best.

[Dr_Liszt]

Well if you guys are talking about dreams dreams, I want to be a sniper.

[Anakin McFly]

There totally needs to be a TV series about a sniper dentist. I would watch that.

...venasaur though.

@aels

One of the biggest problems regarding LGBT stuff in my country right now is the blatant censorship of any material that portrays the subject in a positive or even neutral, informative light (one of the things that got banned was a thing from the health ministry explaining what sexual orientation is and that some people are naturally gay). The internet is thankfully doing a lot to change this, along with the principle that people naturally want to seek out stuff that's banned. But there's still a lot of annoying and offensive misinformation that's not being countered. I still know people who honestly think that being gay means you want to sexually abuse little boys, so obviously they're going to be against it. Or that gay people want to pressure/force everybody to be gay (presumably because current society pressures everyone to be straight, idk. so much projection), and that would be bad because the population would die out, or that if homosexuality is decriminalised, if a gay man hits on a straight man and the latter refuses to have sex with him, he'd be labelled homophobic or it would be illegal for him to say no. Or that all the girls would turn lesbian and no longer want to have sex with men, lololol.

tl;dr people suck and censorship sucks and if I do one thing in this life other than meet Keanu Reeves, I hope to at least do something big to help educate people a bit more. The homophobia here is extremely creative and frequently bizarre.

Quite a big part of me coming to terms with my disability has been trying to get myself to understand that I can't necessarily do the things I want to do or have the life I wanted to have and that it doesn't mean that I'm somehow living my life wrong if I don't do those things.

Yes!

[Dr_Liszt]

Let's move to the UK together.