Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

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Anakin McFly
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Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

Post by Anakin McFly »

We both thought that the inversion would confirm our liberal assumption—that no one would have accepted Trump's behavior from a woman, and that the male Clinton would seem like the much stronger candidate.
But we kept checking in with each other and realized that this disruption—a major change in perception—was happening."
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publicat ... ersal.html

I'd be really interested to see if the same results would be obtained from a conservative audience (NYU is super liberal, especially its academic circles), because the study is otherwise incomplete; it's no surprise that female!Trump would have been deemed more likable by a liberal audience, which appreciates women who are outspoken, bold and willing to speak their minds and express rather than repress their anger, especially against men who condescend at them; while having much less favourable opinions of smug know-it-all men who smile a lot.
Derived Absurdity
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Re: Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

Post by Derived Absurdity »

Interesting. I also have some reservations about the universality of this study. I'm also not sure if it's possible for fallible impression to fully depict all the mannerisms and behavioral tics of the two candidates to a sufficient degree of accuracy so as to make broad conclusions about how gender shapes perception justifiable. But it's still better than nothing, probably.

During all three debates I wondered how I would be perceiving them if the genders were swapped. I had some suspicions that the ideas of Clinton propagandists supporters that Trump's behavior would be considered unacceptable from a woman and that Clinton's act would be more accepted from a man were not as straightforward as they make it seem. Speaking personally, I thought Trump's assholery would come off significantly better if he were a woman (in my eyes) and that Clinton's behavior would actually come off worse (or at least not better) if she was male. I don't know how universal my attitude is, but am I really that unique? Would people have warmed to Clinton easier if her robotic behavior, her creepy and viscerally repulsive smile, her obvious lying and disassembling, her complete lack of anything approaching charm or charisma, was embodied in a male? Or would he be received even worse? I have no clue.

I don't know if it's that femaleness amplifies and balloons (both real and perceived) negative traits all out-of-proportion to how they "should" be viewed (assertiveness in a male is bossiness and bitchiness in a female, and so on) or that femaleness gives a sort of gloss to behaviors and traits that would otherwise be perceived worse (when women aren't taken as seriously as perpetrators of violent crimes, for example, or when they're generally thought of as "nicer" or more caring and so on). It's a complicated subject. For me, it's the latter, but my feelings are probably not normal.

Do we not remember Mitt Romney? He was mocked as robotic and cold and awkward and unfeeling all throughout his campaign, despite having a penis. Does gender really shape our underlying perceptions that much? It obviously does at least a little, but I don't think quite as much as Clinton propagandists supporters say. But I'm not sure about that. I don't anyone really knows for sure, they just go off gut feelings.
Anakin McFly
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Re: Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

Post by Anakin McFly »

I don't know if it's that femaleness amplifies and balloons (both real and perceived) negative traits all out-of-proportion to how they "should" be viewed ... or that femaleness gives a sort of gloss to behaviors and traits that would otherwise be perceived worse
Both, depending on the traits in question. There's that bossy/bitchy example, where assertive women were seen as domineering vs assertive men seen as confident leaders, but there's also opposite examples of care in a woman seen as weakness in a man, and so on; as well as the effect you mention where certain behaviours are more excusable in women, partly because women are deemed less threatening or capable of carrying out harm. It's ultimately still steeped in misogyny - 'feminine' traits in men make them less-than, while women who act in ways deemed masculine are seen as not knowing their place, and the idea that a woman could be dangerous seems silly because women are delicate flowers.

I get the feeling that conservatives might perceive female!Trump as a stereotypical SJW - angry, loud, emotional, shouting at rational men - but there's also the chance it might be positively perceived as brash honesty or standing up to smug intellectuals.

A lot of the support for Trump comes from the impression that he's sticking up for the vulnerable and voiceless and speaking truth to power, except that the 'vulnerable' and 'powerful' in question are framed as white men struggling against the oppression of feminazis. But with the genders swapped, we now have a fiesty woman refusing to let the patriarchy shut her up, and that alone provokes a positive emotional reaction in most liberals even if half the things she says are lies. My volume wasn't on that high so I didn't catch most of the words, but just from the video alone, there was something instinctively satisfying and feminist about female!Trump shouting at male!Clinton.
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Cassius Clay
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Re: Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

Post by Cassius Clay »

There are a lot of things difficult to control for. Clinton wasn't as directly confrontational as Trump, but she had more presence and spoke with more conviction in her voice than the dude playing her(recall when she called Trump a puppet and said he choked), while the actress playing Trump actually speaks with more presence and conviction than the real Trump. I think that has plenty to do with the perception. One person is speaking with way more conviction while being confrontational, while the other is acting borderline meek/unsure of self and on the defensive. Naturally, the second person will appear weaker.
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Derived Absurdity
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Re: Her Opponent (genderswapped Trump & Clinton debate)

Post by Derived Absurdity »

I got neither of those impressions at all, and that difference between us essentially shows why this study probably can't show us anything useful.
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